It sounds as if Garcia is going to get his first start today. Chances are he will be playing against tall strong forwards. This is not favorable for a player who has more heart than height. Garcia can easily mark these players, but when it comes to set peices and headers he will be at a substantial disadvantage. Jamica will come out fast on counter attacks, which will also leave them suspectable to them. One of three situations will arrise after this game is over. 1. Garcia's weakness in heigth is shown and can be a liability against tall teams. 2. Garcia's work rate is shown and his man marking can be more valuable an asset than his heigth 3. Garcia can't make the quick transitions from stealing the ball, possesing it and making the quick decision and correct passes to start the counter. I think it will be somewhere between #2 and #3.
I wouldn't be surprised if Arena went to a 3-5-2. I think Garcia would be most effective in international play in a 3 man back line.
Fortunately I believe he will be marking someone we all know and love around here Mr Onandi Lowe. (Photo courtesey Team Talk) Looks like he finally chopped that tarantula off his head. Jamaica Roster here: http://www.ussoccerplayers.com./latest_soccer_news/339929.html According to TeamTalk Onandi has 8 goals and 8 cards in 26 games this season. Third worst of the four forwards but still respectable. Seems he's cooled off a bit but still will be a handful for N'Garcia. Good thing he knows that Onandi always waits for the pass instead of coming to it.
Re: Re: Garcia vs. Jamica big players like lowe/fabbro are often trained to do this. their size makes them slower typically, so they use their strength to hold the defender behind them instead of racing to the ball faster than the quicker defender. he's playing smart, not lazy.
Re: Re: Re: Garcia vs. Jamica Nope... don't think so. These big forwards are not trained/coached to do this. This is a case of the lazies. You have to meet (show for) the ball as a target forward, trap and hold, or flick on unless it's deep enough for a header scoring chance (e.g. McBride). Onandi played just the opposite, he "tried" to shield defenders and they just stepped right around him to cutoff the pass. Thus he rarely got the ball. The Wizards even quit attempting passes to him as it would result in a possession change even when he was the easiest outlet. Lowe scored on setpieces with his thundering shot or on defensive breakdowns where he got the ball in stride and already running at the goal. Once in this position he had defenders literally bouncing off him as he made his way to the goal. However to get those types of passes you have to have a workrate off the ball. Neither of which Lowe or Fabbro choose to do throughout the entire game. They want to post up and wait instead of post up then meet. You're not going to hold any experienced defender by waiting on the ball. They'll play about two yards off then either just step in front or tackle the big man if when he slowly tries to turn. Experienced defenders do not mark right on a big man because they know they could get shielded out or get chipped over, add a little arm hook and now the forward is facing the goal. Garcia knows better than to do this. Garcia knows the fact that his right foot is the lethal even from 25-30 out. Garcia doesn't have many defensive breakdowns on his mark. So Garcia won't let him or any other large target get the ball much less turn and face the goal with it during the run of play. Now set pieces for Garcia with big forwards is another issue. The only "smart" play Onandi did was leaving the Wizards before the fans completely turned on him.
Actually, I thought Onandi was really fast when he got going, although his first step was slow, I could also be wrong.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Garcia vs. Jamica i'm curious where you get your information that this technique is not taught. onandi's success, or lack thereof, does not mean that large target forwards are not taught to shield off defenders instead of sprinting towards the ball. your point above about defenders playing two yards off proves my point, as you seem to agree that the smaller/quicker defender wants to not get shielded/muscled and rather use his speed against the bigger forward. the big forward realizes this, and goes and sticks a body on the defender - and onandi was actually quite successful with this as he held off one defender with ease and many times shielded off two defenders.
Fixed your post. Sorry to tell you, but I just took my USSF 'E' license, and waiting for the ball was most definitely NOT taught. I could go into the intricacies of the principles of attack, but that would be overkill. Onandi's only smart play, as Beech said, was leaving before the fans killed him.
you got baited into this one, as i knew you had just completed your ultra impressive E class. i have completed the D class myself which is after you've completed E, and it was a HUGE waste of time, as it was incredibly elementary. and yes, shielding was taught in the D class - especially to bigger players. thanks for playing.
Re: Re: Garcia vs. Jamica Oh my god, the point is they are BOTH LAZY. You cant deny that fact at all. Lowe didnt shield, he stood around, waited for the ball, got it and dribbled through as many guys as he could. Fabrro doesnt use his size to knock people around either. Lowe never showed hustle, Fabrro hasn't yet. I have no liscense, I just played competitvely from age 5 into college, and can tell you this from watching them.
As long as we are going over qualifications.... Oh, yeah? well I just happen to have a humongus schlong, and i say that both of them should be playing in the Champions league!
Re: As long as we are going over qualifications.... Must've been your username that gave you that result.
Re: Re: As long as we are going over qualifications.... I knew something of the sort was coming. but, to be honest, i dont really care. i jsut had to say that.
Re: Re: Re: Garcia vs. Jamica actually, the debate is quite specifically about whether or not shielding is taught. if laziness is brought up, we can discuss that as well.
No, the debate was about waiting for the ball, not shielding. Shielding is taught, and is effective for big players. Hell, it's effective for small players too... In any event, you've just cemented yourself in my twit list.
it was about going to the ball vs. shielding, at which point you said that shielding was not taught except by bad coaches - remember when you corrected my post.
As a defender, I personally did not like when a forward made an effort to come towards the ball (even a half step). That meant that I either had to follow him to get into a position where I can pressure him, thus creating space behind me, or I could let him go and allow him to turn. Okay, back to Garcia... He's taking a bit of a beating on the official game thread. Although I don't see him having a big future for the national team, I don't think Califf is that high above him.
quote:Originally posted by Beech Good thing he knows that Onandi always waits for the pass instead of coming to it. quote:Originally posted by pblake big players like lowe/fabbro are often trained to do this. their size makes them slower typically, so they use their strength to hold the defender behind them instead of racing to the ball faster than the quicker defender. he's playing smart, not lazy. I remember correcting this post. This is what I was referring to. In the above described situation, if Lowe holds the defender behind him, he's committing obstruction, and the result is a turnover. If he lets the defender go around him, he loses the ball, and the result is a turnover. If a player is taught to wait for the pass and not go to it (as your reply indicated) he is being taught incorrectly. Now, if the in the same situation, he checks to the ball to receive the pass, then shields the ball against the defender, all's copacetic with the world. We don't call him lazy, and he's probably still playing here, or perhaps with a higher division club in England.
by the letter of the law obstruction, but if the ball is approaching him then the ref never calls it. this is why it is taught, because it is allowed and effective for bigger/slower forwards.