MOD NOTE - Continued from this thread I think Garber's statement doesn't have to be interpreted as a step back from further expansion. It could just as easily be seen as MLS setting the stage for the next round of expansion beyond what was the initial goal for growth over the last five years (going from 10 to 16 teams and then taking a breather). In the same statement, Garber himself mentioned teams 19 & 20 (perhaps for the first time in public), so I think further expansion is clearly on their agenda; it's just a matter of when and how. If you take a look at the current field of expansion candidates, there are far more locations (and apparently just as many interested I/O groups) than could be accommodated by adding just a few more teams. Here's a completely unscientific round-up of places based on various news accounts - YMMV: Front burner/Strong and potentially near-term possibilities 1.) St. Louis - Jeff Cooper's group is almost at the finish line 2.) Montreal - Billionaire pro soccer owners Gillet & Saputo have apparently already put together an initial offer for MLS to consider, SSS already partially in place 3.) Miami - Gov't proposal on offer to help finance a SSS, ideal market demos & geographic location for MLS 4.) Atlanta - Indications that NFL owner Arthur Blank is seriously considering a bid that would include a new SSS, but no real timeline in place that I'm aware of 5.) Portland - Timbers owner Merritt Paulson working on a plan to move the minor league Beavers to a new baseball park and turn PGE Park into a SSS, bid would require sharing arrangement for early years or else a delay of several years before it could be MLS-ready 6.) Vancouver - Whitecaps billionaire owner Greg Kerfoot willing to personally finance new SSS pending local gov't approval, probably wouldn't be ready to join MLS for 3-4 more years at current pace Back burner/Currently remote or long-term possibilities: 7.) NYC-Queens - Mets owner Wilpon reportedly interested in siting a SSS next to the new baseball park, but still with a long way to go before becoming reality 8.) Las Vegas - An I/O group apparently still at the early stages of putting together a bid to self-finance a retractable-roof SSS & casino complex 9.) Cleveland - An I/O group in with a languishing plan to build a domed SSS and mall with county/state financial support 10.) Phoenix - Strong MLS market demos and some interest from the private sector so far 11.) Twin Cities - Interest from the city of St. Paul to help finance a small SSS, and some aspirations by the Thunder owners to move up to MLS though probably would need significantly greater capitalization first 12.) Any number of other cities that could add themselves to the mix down the road: Milwaukee, Tampa, Sacramento, San Diego, San Antonio, Hartford, New Orleans, Detroit, etc. Perhaps MLS is looking at this list of suitors and rather than trying to thwart it, they are performing due diligence, planning how they can accommodate another 4-6 teams on top of the 16 so far over the next 4-6 years and what that would look like and re-evaluating what their criteria and time-frames might be. It's a great position for the league to be in, despite the obvious stress it places on the fans from expansion-candidate locations.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 when you say Wilbon who do you speak of? Mike Wilbon from PTI or some other famous guy? Sorry if its a dumb ? thats the only Wilbon i could think of though.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 ahhh ok thanks dumb ? by me since Mike Wilbon doesnt make much to begin with.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 I definitely would like to be in the same income bracket as someone who owns a house in arizona and DC, by the way that was the first Wilbon that came to be head as well.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 Yes Fred Wilpon who bought out his partner Nelson Doubleday (books) a few years ago to become the sole owner of the NY Mets. He is building CitiField to replace Shea Stadium in Queens NYC. The stadium is being built right next to Shea in the parking lot. Wilpon has been in discussions with MLS for a while now about building a soccer stadium either in the same parking lot (its pretty big) or in a nearby area next to the parking lot and buying a MLS expansion team. I think Wilpon is on record as wanting to finish and open CitiField in 2009, including we are supposing demolishing Shea, then moving on to soccer and MLS. There are at least two open questions with what is being called NYC2. Does Wilpon intend to finance this stadium himself or ask for some level of city or state support? And he is building in the parking lot or in an area next to the lot that he already owns or is he waiting for the new proposed development of a much bigger area near the stadium and wants the soccer stadium to part of that development? If he's doing this on his own dime and property he could conceivably be ready to enter MLS (as Mets FC?) as early as 2011. If he's waiting for the bigger development and/or needs public support this could be a much more open ended initiative.
Re: Garber's Comments on Timing of 17th & 18th Teams I hardly think New York II is back burner. Garber has consistently said the plan was two New York teams from the beginning. It is one of the few markets MLS has addressed in their organizational documents (carving it out of RBNY's territory after an exclusivity period). They have been talking to Wilpon. It is a complicated market to enter, but MLS HQ will fight for it hard, IMO.
Re: Garber's Comments on Timing of 17th & 18th Teams I totally agree; I just think everyone is overreacting to the commissioner's comments and pretty much everyone that is complaining now will get in.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 I find it very doubtful that NYC will give Wilpon much if at all for an MLS stadium, maybe give a break on the land if he had to push a little off the lot.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 Yes - the reports have the stadium going next to the new CitiField, it might be right where shea is - not to sure. If not, there are a lot of rumors as to what will become of that area. Lots of controversy. There were reports that Willets Point will see a whole redevelopment and others are against it. I have also heard (not sure if its a credible source) that wilpon ownes more land around that area than the public know. Who knows? As far as wilpon, he has been intersted in the MLS for a while. After the New York Jets got denied their stadium on the West Side, they put together a plan for a Queens location, which also got denied. Part of that stadium plan was to place an MLS team there, which wilpon wanted to buy. He has been thinking about this for a while, so im sure all has been taken into consideration. With CitiField, SNY (The MEts Network) Wilpon has plenty of money to fund this development on his own!! But then again - you never know! Coney Island as one poster said - great area but it does not offer the accessibility that the Shea area has. From the city the 7 train gets there in 20 minutes where coney island is a very long train ride. Also, that area is right by major highways, and the Long Island Railroad. it is an ideal spot for any stadium!! Not to mention the large amounts of fans around that area. During South American qualifiying, Roosevelt avenue needs to be blocked off because of the fans!
Re: Garber's Comments on Timing of 17th & 18th Teams Garber was making the rounds of MLS game telecasts yesterday, and on one of the shows (HDnet or FSC or something), he indicated that teams 17 & 18 would most likely come into the league after Philly in '10. So, while not definitively ruling out '09 or '10, it sure seems like MLS' preference is to withhold from additional expansion until '11 or later. Still, we could be sitting at 18 teams in 2012...just four years from now.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 I fell off my chair when Shaq came to Miami and he was doing the "CAN YOU DIG IT???" at the first public event.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 Rapid, thoughtless expansion is the death nell for a fledgling league trying to keep up with the "Big 4" in this country. Be thankful MLS is being cautious and meticulous. I feel your pain. You want your own team to root for. But at the cost of driving this league into the ground?
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 anal vocal chords have never developed so do us a favor and stop talking out of your ass.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 I hardly believe that the league is driving itself into the ground. It's probably at its most profitable point ever. I think that the expansion committee is more geared towards "how can we extract more money" from these new owners than anything else. Also being the Phil, himself is going to run the show, clearly shows that he probably has the most invested in this league and is the one that has the most to gain. Maybe Cooper in St Loius hasn't anted up enough or hasn't paid the piper so to speak. I personally don't feel that St Loius is out, just that Cooper and Phil are probably playing hardball. Why do you think that Philly beat STL for the current expansion spot? The league probably feels that STL, has great potential via the youth development of the area and wants to make sure that the team put in place there has the means to foment that growth.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 You misread me. I never said the league was driving itself into the ground. I said rapid expansion would do that. I don't believe St. Louis is D.O.A. Perhaps you're right that the powers that be are trying to raise the stakes on them. Or, perhaps we can believe what Garber said and the league is just trying to thoroughly think things through before expanding any more.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 But right now, they are following the "Big Money in Big Cities" approach. The NHL has shown this approach does not work. With it, the MLS, like the NHL,going to be marginally popular in the cities with teams, but the rest of the country won't care. If my city is priced out by your league, I'm not going to be very interested in your product.
Re: Garber's Comment on 17 & 18 I don't believe that rapid expansion will hurt anyone, obviously if done right. I think that we have a league that is very cautious about it goes about things, sometimes too cautious. Case in point, the salary cap. Anyhow I think that the expansion is going to greatly benefit the league. The interest in the league is high and Phil and Co. want to take advantage of it. That's another reason why they are probably going to pass 18 teams and probably go to 21 & 22. In the end, it's probably better for the league and at this point in the game it's not going to be anything remotely close to what the NASL ever was.