Garber: My biggest fear is hooliganism

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by lfcli30, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. lfcli30

    lfcli30 Member

    Jun 21, 2005
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Recently the Timbers Army had Q&A with Garber to address a few issues as they transition into MLS. The Q&A session was documented, with parts 4 and 5 as the ones which stuck out to me.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsni5G2OpEE&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsni5G2OpEE&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkbmrmhUL_I&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkbmrmhUL_I&feature=related[/ame]

    Mr. Garber specifically states that he does not envision a league wide policy for away support, regardless of the large amounts of traveling fans that want to go to these rivalry matches. I find it concerning that our comissioner is so out of touch with the very real issue of handlng away support as the league grows and matures. Don goes on to state that he thinks that supporters groups cultivate the lunatic fringe, and then (unbelievably) cites the chant "you suck asshole" to make his point.

    I really struggle with how out of touch he is on this supporter issue. Garber is under the impression that Seattle and Portland will travel 3-400 for their rivalry matches next year. He is also under the impression that NY and Philadelphia only travel 20 to our matches as well. In the three matches between NY, Philadelphia and DC, the clubs have all traveled over 100 to each match, with NY bringing over 400 to Philadelphia this past weekend. There is growing concern up north that only 150 tickets will be made available for Portland and Seattle fans next year as part of their rivalry as well. In short, it seems as if the league will not make any definitive guidelines for handling away support in the near future.

    Garber seems to believe that limiting away support is the safe way to go, and that if we were to actually establish leaguewide guidelines that it will cultivate hooliganism. I'm opening this up for debate, because I feel this uniformly affects MLS fans as a whole. My opinion is that this is a legitimate concern as the league grows and matures. Particularly as many of the new clubs entering the league are done so with rivalries in mind. To be honest, I was kind of shocked to hear this from Don...he's normally pretty good with these public speaking events.

    Many of us enjoy away days (even those who aren't in SG's) and I'd really like to see it managed in a competant and effective manner. What do you make of the commissioners comments, is he warranted at all? I don't think so. How can you say that you're expanding to create rivalries, and then have no policy for the inevitable away support generated by these rivalries? Seems counter-productive to me.
     
  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Rapids took almost 150 fans to Salt Lake and it looks like 150-200 fans are coming to Colorado for this weekend's match. And that's a 6-8 hour drive through the mountains. I assume cities with more direct driving and train service (Portland-Seattle-Vancouver, New England-NY-Philly-DC, etc.) would bring more than that on a regular basis.
     
  3. lfcli30

    lfcli30 Member

    Jun 21, 2005
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They do. FFS, Columbus brought 200 to NY on a Thursday night.
     
  4. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, the "you suck asshole" chant is sophomoric. But I'm probably just an over-the-hill prude. :eek:

    I agree with the OP that one would think the league would want more league-wide policies to be in place with more rivalries being formed throughout the league. Therefore they can head off any potential "hooliganism" off at the pass.
     
  5. Crollaa

    Crollaa Member

    Sep 5, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I don't have an exact count, so I'll use a very conservative estimate and say that Seattle has brought over 500 to Portland the last two years for the USOC. Portland also brought about that many to Seattle for a pre-season game.... I don't understand how he could think so few will travel when there is empirical evidence to the contrary.
     
  6. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    The frustrating thing with having no league-wide policy is that visiting fan expectations get jilted around.

    RSL allows visiting teams a lot of flexibility in how they wish to represent, as long as they stay in designated areas and don't interfere with or provoke other RSL supporters.

    Going to Colorado, they won't allow any flagpoles. At least this year they were a little better at communicating the rules, but the security there has provoked more incidents than alleviated the tension because they've got 6 guys running around telling us contrasting things.

    It would be great if they would institute a basic policy and then allow individual franchises to go beyond that. Obviously, Utah isn't going to attract many visitors, but the teams in the NE and NW will likely have huge groups of traveling fans, so setting a number as high as 400 to reserve for visitors would be impossible for RSL. Meanwhile, nobody would expect 4000 NE fans to attend a regular season match in Seattle either.

    The policies should basically be that each stadium needs to have a reserved "area" that can accommodate at least 150-200 away fans with flexibility to add more, and a plan to keep those fans in a particular area so that SG's don't mix too much. Ultimately, they should have designated areas for banners, a set policy on flags and flagpoles, drums, etc... That way a visitor wouldn't have to navigate through the idiosyncratic rules of each team and spend an hour or two on conference calls with security. That would be a better way to handle hooliganism. Anyone stepping outside of the league wide policy knows that they're a dumbass, just like anyone who drives drunk.
     
  7. flippin269

    flippin269 Member+

    Aug 3, 2003
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At this point, I would fear lack of tv ratings first...
     
  8. lfcli30

    lfcli30 Member

    Jun 21, 2005
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except that 150-200 number is way too smal for PNW and NE clubs. I don't see why MLS can't use common sense for these matches. You have categories for matches, and away support is determined on the category. Or at least have something for rivalry/playoff matches.
     
  9. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like the idea, but I'm guessing the fact that MLS doesn't control all of its venues (DC, SJ, Houston, etc.) makes it difficult to have a league-wide policy.
     
  10. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    @lfcli30
    Did you see the "flexibiliity to add more" part? You are right to be concerned. The problem is finding a large enough chunk free of STH's for those big rivalry games.

    In places like Toronto and Philly where most the entire stadium is full of STH's, this will take some serious coordination if the issue hasn't already been addressed.

    However, nobody should be bending over backwards to cater to away SG's, especially if the game will sell out.

    On gameday, unused visitors tickets are available for day-of purchases.

    @Jasonma
    Good point. It was incredibly difficult for RSL to carve out an area for SG's those first years when the RES ticketing staff would sell seats to a family with four kids right in the middle of a bunch of drunk, boisterous, vulgar college-age fans.
     
  11. PhantomTollbooth

    PhantomTollbooth New Member

    Jul 20, 2004
    Appleton, WI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    If folks are expecting The Don to mandate "x number of tickets must be set aside for visiting fans" that's never going to happen. The job of the individual teams is to get butts in seats and if they think they can do that without reserving a chunk of tickets for fans of the other team that's their prerogative.

    I could, however see the league mandating things like placement of the visiting supporters in relation to the home team supporters section, minimum security requirements, etc to help deter confrontations between the away supporters and the fans in the city they are visiting.
     
  12. bgix

    bgix Bad Penny

    Jun 29, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    What a dick.

    1. In Seattle at least, the "You Suck Asshole" is yelled by just about everyone at Qwest *except* the ECS (Supporters group). It would not suprise me to find that this is also the case most other places. Not that profanity isn't used in the ECS, but there is usually something else going on when the "You Suck Asshole" GKs are taken.

    2. Both Seattle and Portland took more than 300-400 fans THIS year to the away matches. And those were on weekdays, not weekends, with maybe a week or two notice tops. Give us a Saturday (or even a Friday evening or Sunday midday) match, and that number will double by itself. Then factor in the fact that the matches will be circled on calendars months rather than days or weeks in advance, and you can factor in another multiplier of 3 or 4.

    As for overall "hooliganism", both Portland and Seattle supporter groups and stadium security have vastly improved over the last couple years as far as threats of violence is concerned. It was not as much of a concern when the numbers were smaller, but we aren't idiots. Individuals will continue cause trouble, but little can be done about that. It's not like there are roving mobs of fans looking to get into brawls.
     
  13. lfcli30

    lfcli30 Member

    Jun 21, 2005
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Disagree wholeheartedly, at least for rivalry matches. The lack of minimum allocations is how these issues come up in the first place. That's exactly the issue at hand for Seattle, Portland, Vancouver right now. Most established leagues have these minimum allocation rules in place for league and cup matches. In fact, it's FIFA mandated...yet MLS chooses not to follow these rules. Philadelphia was able to accomodate 400 NY fans pretty easily this weekend, and security was in place to make sure there were no issue within or outside the ground itself.

    I don't see the issue with setting aside a specific section as "Visitors only". Give the teams until 2 weeks prior to the match to fill the allocation...if they can't, the tickets are opened up to the public. I just see this as a footballing culture type of thing.
     
  14. Stogey23

    Stogey23 Member+

    Dec 12, 1998
    San Diego, CA
    Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads, you know. Smell like cabbage. Small hands.
     
  15. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Exactly. Put it in a less desirable area. The visiting fans are yelling and cheering and drinking usually. Having the perfect sightline isn't all that important. I think 2 weeks is plenty of time to open the seats to whomever, even if the game is gearing for a sellout.

    This group isn't just for visiting fans. It's for an organized vocal group of fans. They are coming and buying tickets regardless, so why not have a designated area of 100-200 that can be expanded up to 400 when necessary? If you don't, then those guys are going to be loud, vocal, visible, and pissing off your fans for standing up and yelling during the match. It only makes sense that a designated area would reduce hooliganism, so that they directly annoy less people and are easier to police.
     
  16. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You guys should just have a close rival who always has seats available

    :D

    One of the advantages of traveling Houston fans.
     
  17. TheScarfMachine

    May 1, 2007
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jesus, he makes us sound like thugs :rolleyes:

    Philadelphia traveled to DC and NY with 500-700+ each time, and there was 1,000 DC and 400 NY fans that came here, with no incidents.
     
  18. scheck

    scheck Member

    Mar 13, 2007
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you want to bring a lot of people, take it up with the FO of the home team. If the FO can't accomodate you, fine. Keep trying, but why does the league have to mandate this to all the teams when 90% of the games won't require it?
     
  19. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Honestly, I am disappointed the TA didn't act more level headed and call Don out. Instead I heard them using the "Shittle" and "Customer" lines as well as saying that all the Seattle fans are a bunch of green street wannabes.

    Dialogue like that with the Commissioner is NOT going to help the situation.

    That being said, the questions asked were good.

    It should have been pointed out to Don that the games next year would be at around 1000 or more for traveling fans.
     
  20. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    So what you all seem to be saying is that team's shouldn't be allowed to sell out their stadiums to their own fans?

    Is that what I'm hearing?

    How many seats do you need to withhold for later sale?

    I'm being serious.

    Just because 2,000 DC United fans might want to travel for an important late season weekend game at Red Bull Arena, should Red Bull be forced to keep that many seats out of their potential season ticket sales?

    So when bad weather comes along and they don't get the walk up sales for those seats when Colorado or Chicago come to town? Just to make sure the "away allocation" is held in reserve.

    Should we do the same for World Cup Qualifiers against Mexico?

    If a team can sell every seat to their own fans, I'm with Garber on this one. There's no right to go to away games.

    If you want it to happen work with your own front office to create a give and take with the other club(s).

    Don't put it on the league office.
     
  21. lfcli30

    lfcli30 Member

    Jun 21, 2005
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See major NCAA football. Required to sell an allocation to other schools.
     
  22. scheck

    scheck Member

    Mar 13, 2007
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So? The league is supposed to force 1000 seattle fans out of the stadium to compensate? :confused:
     
  23. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    I agree that the league doesn't need to have a policy to accommodate such large traveling contingents.

    But some pressure from MLS HQ to the local FOs wouldn't hurt in regards to encouraging a better atmosphere at these league games, which will help GROW the sport and league. Especially for the games where the demand is there for large traveling support.

    Having 1000 Timbers fans in Qwest will only help the atmosphere in the stadium. It will get the locals more pumped and into the game than regular games. Same thing with Sounders fans in Portland. And that will have a carry over effect to the rest of the season.

    That kind of attention will bring GOOD press for the teams, the league and the sport.
     
  24. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    No.

    Seattle can EASILY take the tarps off of two or three sections that happen to be right next to each other in the upper deck that do not have any advertising on them.

    Move the people who have the loge seats temporarily for that game(that inner ring in the front of the ring that is only a few rows deep). I would also stop selling season tickets to those sections and transition them to single game sales.

    With regards to stadiums that actually are at capacity.
    You have them set aside a block of 1000 tickets for single game sales only. Or more if they want.

    You can adjust the away tickets according to the demand. Some games you might have 10, others 1000. But the away section is in that block.

    Also, it would be best if that block is in an area that is easy to segregate.
     
  25. Ganapper

    Ganapper Member

    Apr 5, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dunno if you've heard but we've got some spare room.
     

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