PBP: Game Day - Nations League: Canada @ USMNT 11/15/19

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by NietzscheIsDead, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    He is not a FB. At best he is a wingback.

    3Gs says he sees him as a winger.

    Play him in front of Dest and it may make some sense.
     
  2. Eldinter

    Eldinter Member

    Jul 28, 2009
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That substitution made perfect sense. Morris was gassed and Canada was throwing everything on Davies's individual dribbling quality. By putting fresh legs and basically two right backs, we were able to double and triple team the only outlet they had. Not pretty but Davies looked less dangerous after Yedling got on the field and that's all that matters - a pretty good tactical adjustment.
     
  3. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    sadly true
     
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  4. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    I think he is the best period.

    he is only gonna get better and is a better orchestrator than Adams.

    Adams, if he comes back fit, needs to play but not in place of Yueill.
     
  5. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    thats fair...today. in hindsight.

    for every actually productive (even strong- i dont even mean needing goals/assists) game zardes has theres half a dozen that are just a blur of bungled chances, donkey touches and him being a bright red stop sign that every us attack smacks right into over and over.

    thats the real choice- do you give 7 matches for one good return, or go with VASTLY more potential that is currently undercooked, clearly, but more consistent all around game at an only slightly lower level (again currently)?

    cause that lower level is ONLY during one of zardes' 1 in 7.
     
  6. Bilgediver

    Bilgediver Member+

    LA Galaxy
    Oct 16, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hopefully this attaches correctly Screenshot_20191116-080043.jpg
     
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  7. Bilgediver

    Bilgediver Member+

    LA Galaxy
    Oct 16, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep.
    https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://ussoccer.box.com/s/xx3byxqgodqtl1h15865/view/462759467819
    The laws of the game are freely available and yes it does specify dead ball situations only. If they do it during the run of play it's a direct yellow card and it doesn't specify but I assume it's treated like a direct kick back.

    Also how did Taylor not know any foul inside the six yard box is placed on the rim of the box itself? It's the only time less than ten yards is allowed for the opposing team during a free kick, purely because the box itself is about 6 yards deep.
     
  8. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    Brooks scared the Hell out of me. He was very lucky not to have been carded out... multiple bad fouls. I dont like Roldan... period. And Zardes..... I totally do not agree on his making better runs. He did not see the ball much last night but did manage to score two good goals, with little help from teammates. Until they figure out the #10 spot, nobody will see much service... not Zardes, not Sargent. Dest was a very pleasant surprise. He looked very good and is a starter IMO

    Now, what will GB do against Cuba? I want to see Sargent for sure but we need to win this one too so I suspect maybe he'll start the same players.... Maybe not
     
  9. Bilgediver

    Bilgediver Member+

    LA Galaxy
    Oct 16, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lletget is the closest we have to a #10 type playmaking central midfielder we have. Pulisic plays better on the outside, especially when he can cut inside.
     
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  10. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think two things were made very clear, and one "big mess" as well.

    first was the adjustment by berhalter to loosen "the system". that made a WORLD of difference. we still tried to play out of the back, still had stretches of vague probing til a chance magically opens up (from opponent boredom, i guess is the theory?)- but we also cleared the damn ball a few times. we played a few outlets, a lot that didnt come off, but still.

    the height of insanity was the friendly loss to mex when we just refused to deviate at all- i thought last night was an acceptable mix. berhalter cant strangle us with his system- last night was maybe his first passing grade in that sense. by all means keep the principles, keep trying to grow the team into some glorious possession monster- but dont mandate it every minute regardless of the game thats actually being played.

    i was a small step, but it helps.

    the second thing that was plainly obvious is starting an attacking mid is non-negotiable, sort of showing a blueprint of how the 3 cms should work.

    we need a 6, an 8 and a 10. as ive said repeatedly we only have one 6 (adams) and no 10, so we have to be lenient.

    yueill is better than trapp (full stop), and better than last two years bradley. i fundamentally disagree with playing a non-defensive 6 but thats our reality. so, since everyone talks about depth all the time i see the 6 as adams, then yueill or morales. morales is exceedingly barely average at passing, recieving, dribbling but hes brings fight in the middle. i honestly have no clue if he can actually tackle but he closes really well, he goes hard and he doesnt make a ton of mistakes. i like that he seems pretty self aware of his shortcomings and doesnt try to do too much. so say, for now, situationally its yueill and morales pending adams' return (for me, we all know what berhalters gonna do). thats the 6.

    the 8 is tricky cause weston, man, hes frustrating. would i continue starting him at the 8 every match? yes. does he turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate (in bad positions) like every other game? yeah man, he really freaking does. hes not an attacking mid, hes not a defensive mid- but hes got every club, every shot in his bag. the position is his. we need to get the other two mids to do their jobs so he only has to do his. that, and just naturally maturing as a player, is whats really gonna unlock him.

    even though last night was one of his constant giveway nights he was in position to be- what i see- as that best version of himself for us. only slightly more defensive that truly two-way. unfortunately i think thats also the best role for pomykal, and i hate the idea of being stacked 2 and 3 deep at 3 positions (rb, cb, 8/cm). morales can back up there as well, and thats the only role roldan should play for us (and never, ever in a dual 8).

    thats where lletget comes in. an actual attacking mid (though hes really not a 10) makes all the difference. for all the talk of being overrun in the middle the first canada match i firmly believe it wasnt a matter of being able to defend canadas numbers in the middle, but having zero possession/attack in the middle to occupy and not allow them to flood at 4 on us.

    the answer isnt to put everything into resisting, but releasing pressure. thats what lletget can do. i know a lot of people call for holmes there but i just dont know. i get the sense that he, like pomykal, is simply a very obvious upgrades to roldan as a second 8. i just havent seen it enough (and club games dont really clear it up because its just a matter of nuance, that particular role of being able to hold at the very least, and ideally build an attack).

    lletget isnt a world beater, but for (as close as we get to) a 10? hes clearly the choice for me. i think holmes and pomykal are the unknown/unproven options there- but what they have to show isnt simply quality, but that ability to be more than just another 8 opposite mckennie.

    we arent going to have a fully balanced midfield under berhalter (pending adams, because he loves that no d 6), but solidifying our backline goes a long way and having a definied 6, 8 and 10 are imperitive, even if the 6 isnt being utilized the way i strongly wish it were.

    dear god i hope mihailovic, aaronson and pomykal get to go at it in january, cause thats my entire point- pomykal is clearly the best player, but we need to better define our mids and he needs to show where he fits in (ideally that he can play that role behind or in place of lletget). i hope holmes get shots wherever we can find them. but lletget, for me, should be locked in that spot til further notice.

    and lastly- our fullback situation is, and is going to be a mess. i want to say dest was rock solid last night, i cant comprehend what anyone would complain about. he stood up VERY well defensively and looked as good as we know he is getting into the attack.

    it would be awesome if he were a lb. hes not though. so at rb, against any mex and above comp, i go yedlin, zero hesitation. and having reggie cannon as a 3rd rb is both awesome and horrible.

    ream is fine as a lcb. i think that mex+ rule applies there, though, for sure. of course he gets beaten but if we wont play robinson (or lichaj, or hollingshead, or literally anyone else other than lovitz) hes fine.

    im all for "forcing" that switch, dest to lb, but not for a couple of years. i just think its too much to put on a kids plate whos still learning his first position- and like it or not ajax is making that determination, and its not as a lb (he.was. only. filling. in. for. an. injured. player.).

    we can only hope berhalter expands his mind past lovitz or we are going to have a rough go til one of the young guys (robinson, gloster, bello?) make it a more obvious choice. i mean, a colaship, honest to god lb whos made multiple teams of the week is clearly better than lovitz to me (as is a half filled two liter diet coke bottle from what ive seen), but, you know...gregg.

    so (finally) in conclusion- berhalter finally loosened his death grip on the system (fingers crossed that continues), we gotta play a balanced midfield and dest looked really good and somethings gotta give with that lopsided fullback mess weve got.
     
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  11. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    How about the crappy midfield both he and Pulisic have been playing with? Zardes got zero service last night as well. One setpiece and a lucky bounce..... that was it for him. Dont overlook that we had few shots last night
     
  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #487 IndividualEleven, Nov 16, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019

    Green has 0 assists in 746 minutes of play with the National Team.

    Lletget didn't score or assist in either of the above mentioned matches. Goal creation isn't the most important trait for the position, given the surrounding talent in the team. Now if in addition to goals-assists, Green were to bring to a-mid the qualities I had mentioned then that would be something.
     
  13. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    I just copy pasted, so sorry about that first line. I didn't write it, it was on a website answering someone's question. Sorry.
     
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  14. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Agree totally. What happened to McKennie? He just couldn't win a tackle and complete a pass. Surprising still better than MB who can't run.
     
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  15. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Nagbe, Holmes, Pomykal, Ferreira, and Lletget can all play the 10 the way team needs it played. It would be prudent if Berhalter calls up more than 1!

    This past season, Arriola played attacking-mid for DC, but he's more of a slasher than tempo-setter.
     
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  16. melatoninlol

    melatoninlol Member

    Seattle Sounders
    United States
    Oct 27, 2019
    Near Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This team is screaming for Ledezma to make the leap so badly to be that 10 role we're desperately missing.
     
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  17. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Yeah, I don't want to derail the thread, and it sounds like it's just become official this year, but a few years ago I recall discussions that they were going to move to not penalizing moves that weren't intended to waste time - that if the ball were "in play" - other players could challenge it - it didn't have to be called.
     
  18. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arriola is basically Alejandro Bedoya to me. Someone who has a good motor, good work rate, covers well defensively, not terrible, but he is not going to do anything special to take the program forward.

    Honestly, he should have been a fullback.
     
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  19. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    In addition to having a good WC'14, Bedoya had a successful stint in a top-5 league. That's actually quite a bit for most National Team players to aspire to.

    Arriola's 5 goals and 5 assists in 21 games worth of minutes with the NT makes for a good return for a wide-mid. He's more attack-minded than Ale who has 2 goals and 11 assists in 44 games worth of minutes.

    Like Zardes, Arriola is a top-30 field player in the pool: a good, veteran contributor but certainly no lock starter.
     
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  20. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’d say it definitely wasn’t an insult but not necessarily a huge compliment either.
     
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  21. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    arriola and lletget are hugely important for us.

    berhalter boosters love to talk about role players/glue guys in excusing what is actually incredibly average, no upside mediocrity, trying to manufacture value where there is none (or very little)- baird, lovitz, trapp, etc.

    ACTUAL role players/glue guys are necessary, and (imo) exactly what arriola and lletget are, and should be so more prominently. i suspect holmes fits that mold as well.

    theyre not going to decide/win games but they are difference makers. its crazy to me that people dump on arriola all the time. he is consistently a net positive. he brings more to the table than any winger we have other than pulisic.

    let me be clear- pulisic, morris and weah are obviously better players. i think boyd (if you think the promise he showed early in the gc is more true than his mostly terrible play since) is certainly a more skilled, better offensive player.

    but arriola should be on every roster. hes solid as hell across the board, a strong defensive/pressuring presence and- importantly- no matter how much his fluffing chances drives you crazy one of (if not THE) most propulsive offensive players we have in the pool. he drives play forward. not to mention hes the rebuttal to every complaint about our players being pampered, soft, having no heart these days.

    if you want to ignore that because he cant finish his drives all the way into the box and finish, well, ok i guess.

    and lletget- in lieu of holmes or pomykal getting a chance to show they can do it (at this level, in this team)- is rare in that he should unquestionably be our starter. in a perfect world arriola never starts, hes just a weapon to bring in as starting wings wear down, protecting a lead, pushing for a goal, etc. but theres no "talent" clearly ahead of lletget currently/in the near future.

    excepting holmes/pomykal (who arent getting games and, frankly, im not sold they have enough possesion/attacking prowess, or at least threat from that spot), no one else is close. mihailovic and aaronson dont seem especially to be, for me, and ledesma isnt period.

    i absolutely hate the condescending, "you must not watch him play" stuff but he was a non-factor against brazils u23s the other day, hes CLEARLY a very skilled but not incredibly productive in the u20 wc or with jong psv. granted, lletget doesnt put up measurable numbers either- but ledezma would get bossed off the ball by guys we say are too small to even be considered.

    his talent outreaches his physicality, but hes fully a 17(?) yo kid. i see no merit in defenses of roldan (or morales, for that matter) in that spot as "we have to have stout defenders in every position"- but we cant afford the luxury of two cms that offer zero defensive ability (and we all know one is going to our 6) either. i just think hes a nonstarter at this point (no pun intended)

    i just think arriola and lletget are underrated (often grossly) around here. theyre not stars, no one says they are or should be. but thats a far, far different thing than ineffective as a whole in their role on the team ala baird, lovitz, trapp, etc.

    and obviously we/berhalter are wasting so many camps/games on guys who dont move the needle even CLOSE to what arriola, possibly holmes do (zimmerman, roldan, etc). there are very few people who dont think berhalter is...lets say not fully utilizing the pool, but i think too often we (bs) are throwing the baby (a lletget) out with the bathwater (a roldan).
     
  22. Gacm32

    Gacm32 Member+

    Chelsea
    Switzerland
    Nov 28, 2010
    Geneva
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Many Chelsea supporters think the 10 is his best position, and I tend to agree. His greatest threat comes from being able to run at players in dangerous positions, and playing the final pass. He’s making runs into the box to get on the end of things, and being found by his teammates. Putting him centrally will maximize his opportunities to do just that. He’s just good in wide areas as well.
     
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  23. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    I think a CAM like Holmes that can be comfortable on the wing and in the center is vital to Pulisic being deployed most effectively. You see it with Chelsea. It's the biggest difference between his play there and for Dortmund, his allowance to move centrally at will.
     
  24. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    I think I prefer the idea of playing friendlies in Europe during the fall. Obviously FIFA virtually took that decision out of our hands with league of nations everywhere.

    The biggest issue continues to be that whereas we used to have Camp Cupcake in January and that gave a larger pool of MLS guys a chance to stake their place...We have Camp Cupcake every window.
     
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  25. Bilgediver

    Bilgediver Member+

    LA Galaxy
    Oct 16, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So we sacrifice Lletget to put Pulisic centrally? I think it's more about putting your better players on the pitch in spots where they can fit than just putting players at the best positions sacrificing other players. Lletget can be good out wide as well, he just hasn't played there that often recently.
     

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