Gaetzgate

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Mar 31, 2021.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is there a chance his story, that someone is blackmailing his dad for $25M, is true? Because it's such a specific and outlandish story, if it ain't true, the guy is completely done. Like, doooooooooone.

    That fact makes me think we shouldn't write off the chance that it's true. Because of all the alibis/cover stories to choose from, to pick one that politically is more damaging than having a 17 year old girlfriend seems a weird choice.

    This thread is for all news related to Gaetzgate. I would suggest including tweets.
     
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  2. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1377037499458060289 is not a valid tweet id




    Seriously, what is it about Libertarians and the fascination with age of consent?
     
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  3. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's an arbitrary number. Of my three daughters, I would estimate the actual age they could make that kind of decision varied by years.
     
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  4. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    When someone says they're a libertarian, you can safely assume they're either superwealthy, a cannabis enthusiast, a pedophile, or a dude who had a nasty breakup with reality at 15 years of age.
     
  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True.

    Let me ask a different question. Pick any of your daughters at random.

    At what age could she make that kind of decision with a boy more or less her own age?

    At what age could she make that kind of decision with a man in his mid-30s and a rich heir and a congressman?

    I'll bet there's a bigger variation for that question than between your daughters.
     
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  6. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm a bit of different case considering my two younger daughters may never actually understand that kind of decision, but my oldest has always been pretty mature and actually asked my wife and I for assistance when she thought she was ready, assistance we willingly gave her.

    I'm pretty sure the age of the other person would have been irrelevant, same with their position or wealth.
     
  7. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
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  8. mbar

    mbar Member+

    Apr 30, 1999
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Couldn't BOTH be true? Couldn't he be guilty of sex related crimes with a girl AND someone is blackmailing him over it?

    The second doesn't/wouldn't forgive the first.
     
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  9. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Robby deleted the tweet. But the internet is forever:

     
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  10. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From 4yrs ago. Guess it's a good thing he's not in the middle of these girls, with his arms draped all over them...
    [​IMG]
     
  11. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I’m going to say something that may sound libertarianish, but it’s been bugging me for a while:

    People here is arguing mostly on age of the minor, but some correctly have pointed that is a social standard, as lest say driving age (15), drinking age (21) or voting age (18). There’s nothing biologically explicit about 16 or 18, and a lot of it has to do with the roles our society assigns to people those ages. In present times we expect 17 yos to be studying but 150 years ago females would be getting ready for marriage.

    Now, that doesn’t mean that what Gaetz did is correct or debatable, since he should actually know that he was breaking social standards and laws, but specially because he was in a position of power over a minor, able to use his position and connections to woo his “girlfriend”.
     
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  12. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    He starts grooming them when they are young.
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    But here’s the thing....as a society, rather than just shrugging our shoulders and saying we can’t do anything about that ambiguity, we draw a line in the sand, arbitrary as it may be. We document those lines via laws. Once it’s documented, further debate about why we chose that spot for the line is irrelevant to whether or not someone stepped over the line that we drew. If what is alleged is true, Matt Gaetz broke a law. He should and will be held accountable. If someday we entertain that debate about where the law should be, we will draw that line somewhere else. Matt Gaetz may be still in prison at that point. I’d advocate for his release if the line moved to make his original crossing legal.
     
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  14. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I agree with that.

    except for the last sentence, which seems like a good ol' can of legal worms, slippery-slope wise.
     
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  15. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    The girl in the hoodie at the bottom of the screen speaks for all of us!
     
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  16. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    LOL I didn't notice her :)
     
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  17. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Gym Jordan says Gaetz didn’t do it.

    That would be the second person he’s said that about.

    541B6608-7F4B-4F84-A0FA-5557E68274A2.jpeg
     
  18. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    fyp
     
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  19. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    Not really. As an example...eventually pot will be legal at a federal level. It will happen. Are you saying that you would make offenders serve their sentences despite the fact that what they were found guilty of is no longer illegal? That’s a pretty ********ing shitty stance.

    for what it’s worth...the inverse of that is unconstitutional. As it should be.
     
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  20. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Sister of my favorite Columbus Crew fan of all time.
     
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  21. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Agreed. On a second attempt to make my point, it is that the discussion over Gaetz’s deeds shouldn’t be philosophical but about the legal implications. If the allegations are proven, Gaetz is guilty, not only because of the age of the victim, but because he holds a position of power and knew very well he was using it to captivate an underage girl.
     
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  22. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Assistance" is a really weird word in this context. I'm assuming you meant advice, or something similar.

    What a great picture. A dab and a bird.
     
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  23. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's wait for Trump to come to Gaetz rescue....McCarthy will quickly backtrack.
    That scandal could not have happened to a nice guy. Will QAnon add Gaetz to the pedophile list now?

     
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  24. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a partial agreement I have on this, and I've said so previously. But I would argue that 18, in this context, is not really all that arbitrary. In this context is really knocks out a lot of potential teacher/student encounters (for lack of a better term). While there is also the legal teacher-student boundary, that breaks down (more or less) when the student becomes 18. But, if you change that boundary to, say 16, there can become more problems. And I'm not just talking for Male teachers -> female students as is the fetish.

    That being said, 18 is a reasonable line not only because of the school issue, but also because of work issues and development issues. Yes, many students are ready for that kind of relationship at 17, or even 16. But many are not. And that is just with peers. Imagine all the manipulation which can occur by a 35 year old towards a 16 year old sophomore in high school. Or a 17 year old junior, a year an a half from graduating. Is that a risk we want to put on our students? As a whole society, I would argue that we don't, and should not, even if there are plenty who are capable of making said decisions.

    Now, there are caveats. For example, I would not have an issue of a 16/17 relationship. Or even a 16/18 relationship, but I think it those relationships should be measured in terms of months, not years. The emotional development of kids up to 17/18 can grow month by month (and in some cases, even older). So, am I okay with a 15/17 relationship where it is 23 months? No. Am I okay with a 15/17 relationship where it is 13 months? Sure. Is a 16/17, 23 month difference any better? Nope. But a 15 month difference (random range here)? Sure.

    But in the case of Gaetz, while the 17 year old might be developmentally able to handle the relationship, legally Gaetz knows the laws and if the relationship was sexual, he knowingly broke the law.

    I agree with this, but don't think 18 is as arbitrary as many are suggesting. What I think should be done is as what I said just above, measure it in terms of months, not years (at least at that age). There should be some criteria there, in part to allow teens to safely experiment, but also to avoid manipulation, as much as possible in both cases.
     
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  25. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Assistance meaning explaining how birth control works, different types, talking with our family doc about side effects of the pill and the responsibility that comes with all of the above.

    Assistance with the decision, as every parent should provide.
     
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