I don't like the trend FY has going. Draft Carierri #1, trade him away for no lasting value. Draft Luchi #1, cut him, so no value. Draft Barclay #1 in dispersal draft -> trade him to DC for 1st pick in supplemental draft and pick up the same player he would have got with his standard #6 pick. Columbus picked Ian Joy at #7, Rapids picked Vallow #8, all others passed. I don't think FY values cheap young talent as much as the rest of the MLS coaches. We'll see who's got it right this year and next. If FY continues to field championship caliber teams, I'll shut up. If the Quakes slowly slide down the table while teams like Dallas who develop young talent move up, we'll know where the fault lies. We already know LA is successful with that model. At the very least, FY is clueless on how to maximize the trade value of these young guys. If you know the other teams value them, even if you don't, you can work that to your advantage. FY doesn't seem to care one way or the other if he actually gets something from them. OK, so Barclay also came with a conditional pick in the 2004 draft. But we have no idea what that will turn out to be. Maybe the condition is: if Barclay starts one game, the Quake's get their #1 pick, but I doubt it it's anywhere near that good. (I just made that up out of thin air, so please don't let me see future threads quoting that as fact).
Don't forget Yallop used the Eddie Lewis allocation to pick Barclay in the first place. And the conditional pick will probably be a 3rd round pick if we get one at all.
It bothers me every time I see this. We traded Carierri for Agogo and won an MLS championship that year. I'm not so quick to dismiss the potential positive impact Agogo had on the team that year and the avoidance of a negative impact getting rid of Carierri had. We can't know exactly what would have happened if the trade hadn't occurred, but we also can't dismiss its potential impact on winning the championship that year. A key to the Quakes' success in 2001 was team chemistry. Getting rid of a cancer who didn't produce (0 points in 5 games) and getting a player in return who accepted his role and contributed a few points in the process (4 goals, 3 assists in 14 games plus 2 playoff assists) sounds like a winner to me. So maybe it didn't show long term benefit. I'd rather show my ring, thank you.
Do you, guys, think it's worth to arrange a trade with Colorado, getting Vallow for ... I don't know ... something .. maybe picks?
This league, with its ridiculous salary restrictions, will not allow anyone to develop anything over the "long term." There's not really a system in place for long-term development, nor a salary structure that accommodates long-term player loyalty (Wade and Joe got out of town on the first bus, it sure seems). So I'm with Scotto. Every year, every coach/gm in the league will have to cut and paste to put a squad together. At least Frank and Dominic seem to know what they need and what they like. After the unthinkable Championship season, and a record string of home wins the next season, put me in the "Frankie probably knows more about it than I do" camp. Besides, Barclay's a stiff. He'll be out of pro soccer before he's 25, due to lack of interest on the part of coaches and other players. I'll bet a beer.
As a United fan, I'd like to say ... thanks. But Yallop has stuck to his plan of creating a team. Carrierri spouted off about deserving to start, so he was moved. Agogo whined about playing time, so he was shipped out. I don't know about Lucci Gonzalez. But I know Devin rumbled about how if he wasn't starting this season he'd look at other options, so he was dealt away. I think Yallop has made it clear that he wants a harmonious squad, and at least thus far, it seems to have been a successful philosophy. DeRosario came in and kept his mouth shut. He didn't like sitting, but he did and said the right things and supported the team the whole time, even when Grazziani was acquired and started ahead of him. Eventually Grazziani's attitude and salary proved the easiest to jettison when cap concerns reared their heads, and DeRo got his chance. I think Yallop is looking for players who know their roles and accept them. Devin didn't fit that profile. So while it's a good thing for DC United, I don't know that it's necessarily such a bad thing for the Quakes. I do think it may say something about Yallop's draft decisions, as he tends to draft extremely confident players and deal them when they're dissatisfied with a sub's role. Donovan and Arturo are starters (OK well Arturo will be a starter by next season at the latest IMHO), but the other confident lads just could not pay their dues until their time came. Maybe Yallop should think about the mindset of the players he drafts or trade the picks for veterans. But in the end it's the final product that matters. If it hadn't been for the Mulrooney/Agoos/Dayak injuries gutting the defensive spine of the team late in the season, the Quakes might have defended their title. I wouldn't be too quick to second guess Yallop's personnel management considering the great chemistry he has created. -Tron
We haven't seen what Ching can do for us yet. We have seen Frank's impact--a fantastic job rebuilding from a last place/perenially-losing team to a championship in 2001 and the second winningest record in the league in 2002 (leading most of the way and losing the division only due to a blatantly-offside Fish in L.A. ***Yes, Russ....I am still damn bitter.***) By virtue of those facts, we're playing in international tournaments that never even gave us a sniff before. Barclay is loaded with unrealized POTENTIAL, which has translated into a 0.00 goals/gm. average for the Quakes. I'm behind Frank.
Given the situation with Barclay, I think Yallop would have given him away for free. It looked very unlikely that Frank could guarantee Devin any significant playing time, so Barclay was (1) unhappy, (2) looking for other options, and (3) letting everyone know about it. If there's one thing Yallop dislikes, it's a disruptive or griping personality in the lockers. Thus Barclay was considered more trouble than he's worth.
Tron - there isn't much else to complain about except this. :grin: Bajaro - this league with it's ridiculous salary restrictions are exactly WHY the team needs to have a continual influx of young, cheap (like free, if you're p-40) players... Scotto - how many years does that fly? In 2006, when the Quakes are 5 years removed from a championship and are bottom dwellers, then will you still be happy wearing the ring? Besides - both Carierri and Agogo had oh so little to do with getting the ring in the first place. Sure, Carierri could have become such a cancer that the rest of the Quakes couldn't have won a championship, but pardon me if I don't buy that theory. But some of you seem to miss my main point which is emphasized by Tron: Barclay has value in the league to other coaches even if FY didn't think he has value for the Quakes. FY did not extract any of that 'perceived' value. Maybe you can make a case for the Carierri trade that the Quakes got something in return. But FY took two of his #1 picks and turned them into zip, nadda, nothing. Think of it this way. Earlier in the off season Ernie Stewart was up for grabs. Dallas was dangling Vaca in front of the Metros to get their allocation for him. It'd be sweet if FY had something in his hip pocket he can dangle in front of other teams when opportunities arise. Instead he gives all his goodies away and picks up LA cast-offs.
Look, I'm not bashing FY in general. In fact, unlike some (particularly on other boards) predicting doom and gloom for the Quakes, I'll be surprised if they are not near the top of the table. FY has a unique (for MLS) management style. He emphasizes teamwork and unity. Many others depend on individual skill and creativity of the players. FY is one coach that really has a 'team' on the pitch, not a collection of 11 players. So while other coaches spend a lot of time trying to get the guy with lots of individual brilliance, FY gets the guy that works for his teammates. In some ways, his players are replaceable cogs in a machine. He gets a lot of production out of otherwise mediocre players (see Ibsen, Zach). Both styles work, you just have to get the right players for each one, and FY does that in his own way. But it's still aggravating to see him give away something for nothing.
You can't expect to have a successful program by gettingt the cheap young talent. That's exactly what they are, talent. They aren't proven veterans. We won the championship in 2001 with veterans. Youth players have to be patient and pay their dues if they are to succeed. They need to stick to one team and soak up all they can. Look at Donovan, Beasley and Convey. All have put in their time and have emerged as terrific, veteran, players. They are solid contributors now, with a bright future ahead, because they have waited patiently for their time. Barclay got a big head in Tampa Bay, if he didn't have one already, and he thinks he deserves playing time that he doesn't deserve.
Donovan, Ekelund, DeRo in their first season in MLS when Quakes won.... the rest (except Agoos, Dayak, & Corralles) never really tasted a winning season.... it was more than veterans (read: FY)
I don't know if you're arguing for me or against me. Because what you said only helps my position. There are two ways to get players with both the talent and experience to win a championship. One is get them while young, cheap, and talented and give them the experience. The other is to trade for or acquire them after they have already gained the experience. Either way, young, cheap, and talented players are at a premium. Once you have them, you have the option of keeping and growing them, or you can use them to trade for either experienced players or allocations, etc... Trying to get experienced AND talented players is almost impossible in MLS. How many of those players came into the league this year and where did they go? Ans: Very few, and to teams with salary cap room because the rest of their team is young and cheap.
Brian Mullan, on his play and the team: “I feel like I am starting to mix better with the team. I feel pretty comfortable out there. This is a great team because everyone here shares the workload and there are no superstars that are above anyone else. I am glad things are coming together well, and I hope that it continues through the season.”
In his first year, Yallops priority was putting together a winning team, not try and build a team that would win 2/3 years down the road. We wouldn't have a team now if he did. Yallop has gone after young talent, and over a majority have panned out. Carrieri, Gonzalez and Barclay have not been good acquisitions. Donovan, Robinson, DeRosario (22 when we got him) and possibly Roner have been good acquisitions. Levesque will get his chance after he rehabilitates. What should have we gotten for Barclay? What did he show in 2002 that justified more than what we got? Nobody was beating down the door for Barclay. He played 321 minutes, 12 games, 2 starts. He had two shots, only one of them on goal. HE HAD NOTHING TO OFFER!!! He's now back home with his mommy.
Carrieri asked to be traded. Barclay pretty much asked to be traded with his comments. Gonzalez never publicly asked to be traded, nor did he bitch about PT publicly, although he probably did hold those feelings. I believe he asked for a trade so he could get a better opportunity at PT with another team. Yallop put the players interests first (these are players at the very beginning of their career), and shipped them out to a better situation. He's not going to kill their careers or egos by trying to get the best deal possible.
Once again, ... you're an idiot. The point that is trying to be made here is not that people are being traded away. The point that is trying to be made is that nothing has been received in return. Not even a six-pack. That's the point. Not the validity of the trade, but rather the return on the trade.
Why do you have to be such an ass? Just because you don't agree with someone is not a reason to call them an idiot. You've done this several times. You would make your point better if you didn't start off by calling someone an idiot. I didn't even get past your first sentence and I have no intentions of going any further. Go have another beer and lighten up.
I think that speaks volumes about the market value of these players. Were teams bidding for the services of Barclay or Gonzalez, offering potential starters or top draft picks for them? Uh, no. You could argue that Yallop's not a good negotiator, but I'd have no way of confirming or denying that assertion. Yallop can only do so much with the hand he's dealt, and he probably got what the market bore.
No, no, no, Mr. Greenspan. The point is, when you trade something that's worthless, you get back something that's roughly the same value. You should have taken Econ. 101, it's fun and not that hard.
Then don't read it. How is that different than calling someone "an ass"? I'm simply returning his favor of calling me a "f*ucking moron". And read his posts, he is an idiot.
True, all the cute chicks take Econ as opposed to something difficult in school. So, the same value for Barclay (sp?) is Ching? I guess. I dunno. If you look at the inflow / outflow of the team this offseason, it's hard to see how we are getting anything of equal value. We've lost several starters, which should have at least given us some cap room. The outflow so far has been Cannon, Barrett (yes, they were out of contract, but their salary slots should now be free, even if they were minimal), Conrad, Graziani, Barclay, and a few others I can't remember. This doesn't seem to equal Ching + Alvarez. And that seems to be the issue, your "Econ. 101" items of equal value theory aren't applying. That's the prob.