Future Ex-Utd Players - The Mason Greenwood thread

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Sofabloke, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
     
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  2. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Nice lip service. Ill listen when he reaches 10 starts.
     
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  3. doubletrouble

    doubletrouble Member+

    Manchester United
    Saint Kitts and Nevis
    Dec 16, 2003
    St.Kitts
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    St. Kitts and Nevis
    At this rate he will be lucky to play 10 minutes in the first half of the season
     
  4. incighte

    incighte Red Card

    May 1, 2016
    I'm hoping Ole is just rotating because that spot's the biggest question mark in the XI.

    Pereira started last game and played the same minutes today that Greenwood did.

    So maybe Greenwood will get the start against Palace?
     
  5. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    According to The Athletic, Greenwood is set to sign a new and improved contract with the club (his pay should be increased to £25k/wk).
     
  6. Anonymous_United

    Manchester United
    Brazil
    Jul 13, 2018
    How about giving him substantial minutes on the pitch aswell..
     
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  7. thenamestsam

    thenamestsam Member+

    Aug 8, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's extremely reasonable for Ole to ease a 17 year old in very, very gently. Giving him minor cameos in each of the first 4 games is a perfectly good beginning for a guy who's way ahead of the normal developmental timeline. Injuries are inevitably going to start to pile up, and once we get back from the international break we have Europa, league cup etc. and we will be on more of a 2 games a week schedule that will force us to start rotating in earnest. He will get chances to start and then it will be up to him to show everyone where he stands as a senior player. For now I think Ole is handling him just fine.
     
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  8. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    I just want more than 5 to 10 minutes. I mean is a 15 to 20 minute cameo, gonna kill him?
     
  9. thenamestsam

    thenamestsam Member+

    Aug 8, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Sure, if you want to say he should've come on ten minutes earlier in a couple matches I won't argue with that at all (I think Ole is generally a bit too slow to use his subs). I just don't think you can call that any more than a very minor nitpick, and yet there seems to be a prevailing attitude that Ole isn't giving the kid a chance which I don't think is fair.
     
  10. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    If you think that criticism is unfair, doesn that imply you think:

    1. He HAS given them a chance

    Or

    2. He cant give them a chance in these circumstances?


    For me, if he hasnt started playing Gomes and co, by the time the 2 games a week kicks in, then there cant be any excuse.
     
  11. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Would like to see him more central given he is more of a two-footed finisher than either Martial or Rash and central is also the position he is most used to playing.

    Also want to see him on for for longer or get the odd start.

    Given we ditched two strikers with none incoming - beggars cant be choosers.

    Woodward & Judge have basically bet our season on this kid (and a few others), it aint right or fair but it is what it is.
     
  12. thenamestsam

    thenamestsam Member+

    Aug 8, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Talking just about Mason, I think, for now, he's getting roughly an appropriate amount of chances given his age/experience level (meaning I agree he could get 18 minutes instead of 8 against Southhampton, but nothing to make a big deal out of). He has has played in every match, and an average of 12 minutes per match (albeit heavily slanted towards the CP match). It remains to be seen where we go from here of course, but if the trajectory goes upwards I think it's perfectly reasonable as a jumping off point.

    As for other players I wasn't adressing that directly, but I do think it's a bit hard to expect Ole to be carrying multiple guys 18 and younger in his match day squads less than a month into the season, and with all the senior attacking players fit until Tony got hurt. As you said my feeling is wait for two games a week to start and then see where those guys stand before being too critical. No manager is rotating too much this time of year and the kids were always going to start as rotation options and have to prove they deserve more than that.
     
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  13. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    As stated in the Astana game thread, I'd have Greenwood playing as a 9 ahead of Rashford at this time. Greenwood may be greener and still far from the finished article, but his instincts and finishing in the box and in front of goal are superior than Rashford, without question.
    In a 2 forward setup, where he'd be deployed in support of the main CF or on the flanks in a front 3, Rashford is fine. But today confirmed that leading the line is not the best use of his talents.
    And unless Martial is ready to return this weekend vs West Ham, I'd roll the dice with Greenwood at CF.
     
  15. incighte

    incighte Red Card

    May 1, 2016
    I, no. That's dumb.

    Greenwood is the player we don't want to shoehorn - and Rashford's only issue at No. 9 is finishing. He still has by far the best all around game at the position of any of our striking options.

    Greenwood is so much more than a No. 9. Wtf.
     
  16. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    'Rashford's only issue at No. 9 is finishing'

    Pretty major issue if you ask me for a CF to have... And I'm not sure where you get 'shoehorning' or locking Greenwood into any position. I said that at this time, if Martial is not ready to resume his place as our main striker, I'd most definitely rather go with Greenwood over Rashford.
    Rashford had 4 pretty clear cut chances in the first half (2 of them being absolutely can't miss ones) and he whiffed his lines in all 4 of them. Willing to bet that if it were Greenwood at the end of those chances, he probably would have converted at least one, if not more of those chances.
    Not only that but it's pretty obvious as of late, that Rashford is just as comfortable, if not more so, on the flanks than he is confined in the 9 role. And conversely, we know Greenwood can play multiple positions but with his qualities in terms of being a great finisher (Ole's words, not mine), is it really a crime if he ends up being a 9? As it was pointed out in the game thread, forwards like RvP or Henry, just to name those 2, were not CF's at the start of their careers but eventually settled into the role, because they had the aptitude for it.
    If Greenwood proves adept at banging goals and shows that he is comfortable in a 9 role, so what if he ends up in that position? Right now, Martial is the one I want at our main CF, but Greenwood not Rashford is the one I want to spell him if it comes down to it. Rashford is great as a SS or on the flanks: nothing wrong with that btw. At least until he proves more reliable in his finish (which at the moment is subpar unfortunately).
     
  17. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Lol haven't read your post yet @Ashur but agree with the opening line. Seriously WTF kind of thing to have said.
     
  18. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    1174784226576797697 is not a valid tweet id
     
  19. incighte

    incighte Red Card

    May 1, 2016
    If being a good finisher was the most important thing to being No. 9 then Luka Jovic would have played more than peanuts for RM so far this season.

    Also, for a group of people who like to reference the 2018 WC as a sign of Pogba being a winner - Giroud didn't score a single goal at the WC but was incredibly instrumental in their play.

    Greenwood lacks any sort of strength to even run by people at times if he gets bodied - playing him in a back to goal role is going to get him hurt. Not to mention limit his growth.

    Greenwood is NOT a No. 9.
     
  20. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have this tendency to be so disingenuous in your arguments. As if there are not different types of 9/CFs, just as there different types of players for pretty much any other positions on the pitch.
    At best, it is reasonable to state that we don't know for sure where Greenwood will end up. He is a very versatile player, who has the ability to play in a multitude of positions. But to make the unilateral claim that he is not a striker is just plain ridiculous.
    By your logic then, Mbappe is not a 9. And neither were TH14, RvP before them.
     
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  21. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Greenwood is a 9 who has a 17 year old's body. Once his strength comes he will be a 9. Right now he will have to be a RW who comes in, ideally more than he currently is being asked to.

    Rashford as a 9 doesn't have the finishing - neither does Giroud. But Rashford doesn't have holdup play, he doesn't offer the team interplay, and he doesn't consistently have the penalty area movement to generate easier chances - though yesterday was better than against Southampton. In order to get leeway for his poor finishing, he needs to be much better at enabling others.

    You can't excuse Rashford's poor finishing and movement on years of being played as a LW, and then say Greenwood isn't a 9.
     
  22. incighte

    incighte Red Card

    May 1, 2016
    I don't think any sane person would claim Thierry Henry was a No. 9.

    Nor is Mbappe a No. 9?

    RvP isn't really a No. 9 either.

    Do you understand what you're talking about or are you just vomiting on a keyboard out of desperation to disagree with me?

    You just listed hybridized strikers/wing forwards and called them No. 9s? That's not a No. 9.

    You want to disagree with me so bad that you're changing the traditions of what's considered a No. 9 - a centrally operating striker that can play in both the hold up and stretching role. RvP in the later stages of his career molded into more of a No. 9 - but as a youngster coming through he was anything but.

    Mbappe and Henry both operate(d) best coming in from the wing.

    Greenwood is not a No. 9. He will never be a No. 9. He will operate best with his ability to choose where and how he attacks.

    Ffs, just look at his highlight reels from the youth levels. You can't even blame it on his body like Naboo just tried to do. He clearly operates best coming in from wide space and running at people.

    But please, tell me more about the player I've been championing longer than anybody else here.

    Rashford doesn't offer hold up and interplay? Hahaha that's a dumb ass statement. Martial is better at holding up the ball (barely) and finishing (significantly), Rashford is better at movement/stretching the defense (significantly) and interplay (barely). That's why I've argued for the two of them to be used in tandem up top flanked by James and Greenwood at LW/RW with McT/Fred sat deep. Neither Rashford nor Martial are particularly good at movement in the box - Rashford was when he came through, but has since been played in so many different positions that the trait has subdued from his game.

    ---

    Seriously, Rashford isn't good at link up play? He was our second leading assist man last season - only had two less than the heralded and sucked off PP despite playing 800minutes less, playing hurt, and playing mostly in a position that isn't supposed to be creative. Ffs.

    I get you hate me and think I'm an idiot, but come on. Don't be daft and ignorant.
     
  23. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    That Tulsa Soccer Club education!


    [emoji879][emoji879][emoji879]
     
  25. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I think Mason deserves some more game time, but I think barring injuries, that game time should continue to come as a sub against top opposition. He spends a lot of time taking things in, working on the edges of moves. I think until we get a set xi and a set group of attackers who know each other, giving him minutes is just for him to get some education and experience. He's not a system player by any means, but until he fills out some, he's going to rely on synergy, patterns and mistakes to influence games.

    If you look at his chance in the first half, the left footed laser just a few inches wide, it was the same kind of movement/position that led to the goal. Same for his effort in preseason (think maybe it was against Juve).

    In the youth team you see him making runs from deep and you see him getting well inside the box but he doesn't have the timing yet to play 9 at the senior level. Given his lack of strength and lack of understanding of how to play 9, he's best used in a free role. Jesse, Gomes, Martial and Pogba are players I think who will bring the best out of him.
     
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