One would think that surpassing brilliance in leading your team to a World Cup title would be one of the easiest resume items one would look for in an all-time great. Zidane = yes. A performance that may not have been the equal of Maradonna and Pele, but who else's was better in the last four World Cups? And his club career hasn't been shabby, either, although not loaded with trophies. But he's got a CL now, and that should also count for something.
Re: Ronaldo Sucks!@ Dont get me wrong, I like Vieri, but he is kind of a big goon and Ronaldo has much better ball skills. I saw Vieri miss a many more chances during the World Cup than Ronaldo did.
I think that your going to get a lot of different players, because I'm sure everyone has a different definition of 'All-Time Great'. Sean
"has scored arguably one of the top five WC goals ever" That I definitely disagree with. I just can't see how you can say Owen will be an all time great when Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink is by far the best striker in the EPL and I doubt Owen will ever suprass his ability? Look at this, two seasons with Leeds in England, wins the golden boot twice. Goes to Spain for a year, plays for a team who gets relegated (So you can imagine the service he was getting) and STILL wins the la liga golden boot. Moves back to England and in two years with Chelsea he's won one golden boot and missed out by a goal for this years one, if Owen did that I would bet people would call him better then Maradona, but Hasselbaink did it and he's ignored.
When the definitive history of football is written it'll clearly be seen that its greatness as a sport lies in its roots in each community around the world in which it's played. The all time greats are, thus, the players and characters that that put the life breath into the game, and not necessarily those who pack the most winners medals into their suitcases. Most of the players we could really today call all-time greats are, thus, long since retired from the game because only history can really judge the depth of the mark they have left. Of the players around today (or recently retired), we can only guess at whose contribution will be of such magnitude. But of those who might just be in the running, Tony Adams, Roberto Baggio, Roberto Carlos, Paolo Maldini, Zinedine Zidane, and Roy Keane are the ones that come to mind. They are joined by hundreds of unsung heroes who play for teams in Division Three and Serie C and the like, some of whom spend entire careers with only one team, and who are the true greats of the greatest game. For me, Steve Bull is the best example. Never played in the top flight but I'd be happy to field eleven Bullys any day of the week, and I don't even support the Wolves.
Steve Bull is a legend, he even has England caps, but because he didn;t move can't be an all time great, like Le Tiss. A legend is simply someone who will be remembered long after they've stopped playing, for whatever reason, in that way Jimmy Glass is a legend.
Here's a quote in the Owen-Hasselbaink comparisson... A few years ago in an EPL game between Liverpool and Chelsea, I'm sure many remember it, Owen scored early to give 'Pool the lead. A few minutes later, Hasselbaink unfurled a beauty from about 30 that equalized. In the second half, Owen scored again on a nice volley to put the Reds back in front. And guess what? A few minutes later, Hasselbaink ran past two defenders onto a ball and scored from a sharp angle. And I can still hear the announcer... "What Michael Owen can do, so can this man!" Maybe that's an awkward example, but the fact is they're both great goal-scorers, but Jimmy can just turn it up one notch higher when he needs to it seems. So when it's all said and done, I think Hasselbaink may rank just slightly higher. Owen certainly has time on his side though. I can't wait to see him try.
"may just"!?!?! Does out scoring him spectacularly every year mean nothing!?!?! Just because he isn't hyped up doesn't mean he isn't good, if Owen had Jimmys scoring record I gaurentee you he would have won world player of the year AT LEAST once by now.
Look, Hasselbaink is my favorite player, I love the guy and I'd put him against anyone in the world. I'm just saying that Owen has years in front of him where he may win Euro and World player of the year awards and the like. There's just no way to predict the future. But, at the present, he's gonna have to out-gun Jimmy to do it, and I just can't see it at the moment. Jimmy has so much weight on all his strikes, he's a threat to score whenever he touches the ball. Owen is good around goal, and can run like a race-horse to create chances. He doesn't have that "X" factor like Hasselbaink. And you're right, Owen's gonna have a tough time being the Premiership's top scorer while Jimmy's still around! Too bad for him Long Live JFH!
Why can't Hasselbaink get into the Dutch starting eleven if he is so great? Do you think Kluivert and RVN are going to be all-time greats as well?
Slah/ed: A top five goal in wc history has nothing to do with the epl. Name me five better goals than that one in WC
Maradonas, that Saudi fellas one, Rodriquez goal in this world cup, that goal dunno the persons name where pele laid it off to him without even looking, Bergkamps in the same world cup. What is so special about kicking the ball and running past two people? There was no technique involved at all he just kicked it ten yards ahead and ran, just raw pace, no technique, nothing special.
Niehter Owen or JFH should be considered all-time greats, IMHO. Owen, for one, is too young, and if he gets better, he could become one. Hasselbank(sp) on he other hand, while he has scored boatloads of goals in the EPL, is hasn't exactly put Chelsea at the top of the table, nor does it mean he could score this many in Spain/Italy. I believe, just because he scres doesn't mean he should be considered a great. I also argree with the fact he doesn't fit into the Dutch's style. The EPL is much different than the 3-4-3 possesion style that Holland seems to use. Sean's .02
We'll ignore Hasselbainks golden boot in his one year in Spain then.....And i was with a team who got relegated, so imagine the service.
Spot on, ED! Hasselbaink has earned respect around the world, not just in the Premiership. ED, think we need a seperate "JFH Appriciation Thread"? Just a thought. And as far as the Dutch national team goes, whether he fits in their style or not, the talent pool for Dutch strikers is quite deep, is it not? Getting caps w/ a national team is hard and can be frustrating stuff in any country, let alone one like Holland where they have so much talent at their disposal.
Bow down b4 JFH If this thread is about great players that are currently active, why hasn't anyone mentioned the greatness of Batigol, Valderama,Rivaldo, or Schmickel(sp?)? They are in downslides but their accomplishments may never be duplicated. Give me Raul, Kuivert, VanNeistelroy, or Figo (despite his lackluster showing this wc due 2 injury) over Owen any day of the wk & twice on sundays. They're all better creaters from the target position. In 20-30yrs, once the hype has passed (ala Shearer & Super Kev) how favorable will he be compared to those that come after him? He is a great player, but his name shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Ronaldo, the best player in a generation. Personally, I think Kevin Cambell, due to his age and fitness, will rewrite the books 4 England.
Next to Lucio for brazil, aside from that horrid give away that hung his keeper out to dry, I can't think of a better young defender in the world. He's not fancy but he handcuffs who's ever around the box.
Do you mean Rio Ferdinand? And if so what records will he rewrite for England? He's a defender, most tackles?
Well, he's not really from this generation anymore, but I still pick Frank Rijkaard. A player who has definitely won it all, except the World Cup for national teams. At the Ajax ground there's a big grafitti covering the entire south stand. Three players are shown there... Cruyff, Van Basten and Frank Rijkaard. Says enough. From this generation... maybe Ronaldo. But I always have the feeling he dissapoints a bit. Scoring a goal is one thing. Winning a match is another thing. Hard to explain, but I don't feel Ronaldo is a real match-winner. Romario was a hell of a lot better (at least in his PSV days) IMHO. Zidane is a great player, and I don't think there are any questions about his status. Van Nistelrooy will certainly get bigger. I don't watch EPL that much anymore so I haven't followed him that much... but if you guys could have seen some of the goals he scored for PSV you would know why he belongs here. Future heroes currently at my club: 1. Rafael vd Vaart. Still young (20), but plays football like a veteran. Should Ajax get anywhere in Europe this season.... remember this name 2. Andy vd Meyde. Same story as nr 1. 3. Chivu. Also very young but probably one of the best defenders in Europe already. The problem is that once the rich clubs develop an interest they're gone. So if we wanna win the CL this has to be the year!
Whoops! I forgot Jari Litmanen!!! Great personality, fantastic footballer. Can lead a team, can score (beautiful) goals, is dangerous anywhere near the penalty box, also because of his passing skills and insight. Won the CL and Worldcup with Ajax. My personal favourite of all times (so far).
I didn't mean records literally, although I think they tally pts against a defender while he's on the field. ala +/- system used by the NHL. No, I meant Sol. B4 the fickle fans forgot about him, he was touted, and rightfully so as his club & Nat performances have proven, as a savior. It's no coincidence his backline surrender few goals. I'm not saying rio is overrated, but I can't recall wathcing a game that he dominated the opposition. Plus, he should get more balls his way, since Sol's guys are on lock down for 90min.