Futility Watch

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by GreatZar, Sep 16, 2003.

  1. GreatZar

    GreatZar Member

    Colorado Rapids
    United States
    Mar 29, 1999
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With the Dallas Burn firing their coach and placing Colin Clarke at the helm for the remainder of the season, I really hope they don't all of the sudden decide to play for the new coach. Why?

    MLS All-time Worst Win Count (By Win/Gms Pct):
    .125 1999 MetroStars: 7(3)-25 (a.k.a. 4W-3SOW-5SOL-20L)
    .148 2001 Mutiny: 4W-21L-2D
    .167 2003 Burn: 4W-16L-4D (6 games to play)
    .187 1999 Wizards: 8(2)-24 (a.k.a. 6W-2SOW-6SOL-18L)
    .192 2001 Rapids: 5W-13L-8D
    .219 2000 Earthquakes: 7W-17L-8D
    .219 1999 Revolution: 12(5)-20 (a.k.a. 7W-5SOW-7SOL-13L)
    .250 2000 United: 8W-18L-6D
    .250 1999 Fusion: 13(5)-19 (a.k.a. 8W-5SOW-4SOL-15L)
    .259 2001 Revolution: 7W-14L-6D
    .281 1996 Rapids: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L)
    .281 1998 Revolution: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L)
    .281 1997 Clash: 12(3)-20 (a.k.a. 9W-3SOW-6SOL-14L)
    .281 1999 Mutiny: 14(5)-18 (a.k.a. 9W-5SOW-7SOL-11L)
    .281 1996 Revolution: 15(6)-17 (a.k.a. 9W-6SOW-2SOL-15L)
    .281 1999 Clash: 19(10)-13 (a.k.a. 9W-10SOW-3SOL-10L)
    .308 2001 United: 8W-16L-2D
    .321 2002 United: 9W-14L-5D
    .321 2002 Wizards: 9W-10L-9D

    Teams need under 10W to qualify for above list. Metro and Fusion appear once (and the Burn may appear for the 1st time). Mutiny, Wizards, and Rapids appear twice. Clash/Earthquakes and United appear three times. Revolution have the most appearances (four).

    If the Burn loose or tie their remaining 6 matches, they will end up second on the all-time list at .133 WinPct. Now if the Burn get REAL HOT and win their last 6, they won't even make the above list. Only the Fire, Galaxy, Burn, and Crew aren't in the above futility list.
     
  2. CrazyDCFan

    CrazyDCFan Member

    Mar 31, 2002
    Henan, China
    ok maybe I am counting wrong but.....why the hell would you pick 19 teams?
     
  3. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    "Teams need under 10W to qualify for above list."
     
  4. GreatZar

    GreatZar Member

    Colorado Rapids
    United States
    Mar 29, 1999
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, Dallas has done themselves a favor with their latest win ensuring no worse than 3rd place and currently have a WinPct of .200 (5th place).
     
  5. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Yeah, that Bora Metros team in 99 has to be the worst.
     
  6. GreatZar

    GreatZar Member

    Colorado Rapids
    United States
    Mar 29, 1999
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dallas looking ugly again. Updated table:

    MLS All-time Worst Win Count (By Win/Gms Pct):
    .125 1999 MetroStars: 7(3)-25 (a.k.a. 4W-3SOW-5SOL-20L)
    .148 2001 Mutiny: 4W-21L-2D
    .187 1999 Wizards: 8(2)-24 (a.k.a. 6W-2SOW-6SOL-18L)
    .192 2003 Burn: 5W-17L-4D (4 games to play)
    .192 2001 Rapids: 5W-13L-8D
    .219 2000 Earthquakes: 7W-17L-8D
    .219 1999 Revolution: 12(5)-20 (a.k.a. 7W-5SOW-7SOL-13L)
    .250 2000 United: 8W-18L-6D
    .250 1999 Fusion: 13(5)-19 (a.k.a. 8W-5SOW-4SOL-15L)
    .259 2001 Revolution: 7W-14L-6D
    .281 1996 Rapids: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L)
    .281 1998 Revolution: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L)
    .281 1997 Clash: 12(3)-20 (a.k.a. 9W-3SOW-6SOL-14L)
    .281 1999 Mutiny: 14(5)-18 (a.k.a. 9W-5SOW-7SOL-11L)
    .281 1996 Revolution: 15(6)-17 (a.k.a. 9W-6SOW-2SOL-15L)
    .281 1999 Clash: 19(10)-13 (a.k.a. 9W-10SOW-3SOL-10L)
    .308 2001 United: 8W-16L-2D
    .321 2002 United: 9W-14L-5D
    .321 2002 Wizards: 9W-10L-9D

    Now that the Dallas team can't get 10 wins, there are only three teams that have never appeared on the above table: Fire, Galaxy, and Crew (however, the Galaxy and Crew could still make the list this year -- both currently have 8 wins).
     
  7. GreatZar

    GreatZar Member

    Colorado Rapids
    United States
    Mar 29, 1999
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Updated table with two new entries:

    MLS All-time Worst Win Count (By Win/Gms Pct):
    .125 1999 MetroStars: 7(3)-25 (a.k.a. 4W-3SOW-5SOL-20L)
    .148 2001 Mutiny: 4W-21L-2D
    .185 2003 Burn: 5W-18L-4D (3 games to play)
    .187 1999 Wizards: 8(2)-24 (a.k.a. 6W-2SOW-6SOL-18L)
    .192 2001 Rapids: 5W-13L-8D
    .219 2000 Earthquakes: 7W-17L-8D
    .219 1999 Revolution: 12(5)-20 (a.k.a. 7W-5SOW-7SOL-13L)
    .250 2000 United: 8W-18L-6D
    .250 1999 Fusion: 13(5)-19 (a.k.a. 8W-5SOW-4SOL-15L)
    .259 2001 Revolution: 7W-14L-6D
    .281 1996 Rapids: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L)
    .281 1998 Revolution: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L)
    .281 1997 Clash: 12(3)-20 (a.k.a. 9W-3SOW-6SOL-14L)
    .281 1999 Mutiny: 14(5)-18 (a.k.a. 9W-5SOW-7SOL-11L)
    .281 1996 Revolution: 15(6)-17 (a.k.a. 9W-6SOW-2SOL-15L)
    .281 1999 Clash: 19(10)-13 (a.k.a. 9W-10SOW-3SOL-10L)
    .296 2003 Crew: 8W-11L-8D (3 games to play)
    .296 2003 Galaxy: 8W-11L-8D (3 games to play)

    .308 2001 United: 8W-16L-2D
    .321 2002 United: 9W-14L-5D
    .321 2002 Wizards: 9W-10L-9D

    If the table finishes with these three 2003 entries, only Chicago will have avoided this table throughout MLS short history.
     
  8. CrewDust

    CrewDust Member

    May 6, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And to think, at the start of the season both the Galaxy and the Crew were MLS Cup favorites.
     
  9. GreatZar

    GreatZar Member

    Colorado Rapids
    United States
    Mar 29, 1999
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Updated table (<10 wins):

    MLS All-time Worst Win Count (By Win/Gms Pct):
    .125 1999 MetroStars: 7(3)-25 (a.k.a. 4W-3SOW-5SOL-20L)
    .148 2001 Mutiny: 4W-21L-2D
    .179 2003 Burn: 5W-18L-5D (2 games to play)
    .187 1999 Wizards: 8(2)-24 (a.k.a. 6W-2SOW-6SOL-18L)
    .192 2001 Rapids: 5W-13L-8D
    .219 2000 Earthquakes: 7W-17L-8D
    .219 1999 Revolution: 12(5)-20 (a.k.a. 7W-5SOW-7SOL-13L)
    .250 2000 United: 8W-18L-6D
    .250 1999 Fusion: 13(5)-19 (a.k.a. 8W-5SOW-4SOL-15L)
    .259 2001 Revolution: 7W-14L-6D
    .281 1996 Rapids: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L)
    .281 1998 Revolution: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L)
    .281 1997 Clash: 12(3)-20 (a.k.a. 9W-3SOW-6SOL-14L)
    .281 1999 Mutiny: 14(5)-18 (a.k.a. 9W-5SOW-7SOL-11L)
    .281 1996 Revolution: 15(6)-17 (a.k.a. 9W-6SOW-2SOL-15L)
    .281 1999 Clash: 19(10)-13 (a.k.a. 9W-10SOW-3SOL-10L)
    .286 2003 Crew: 8W-12L-8D (2 games to play)
    .286 2003 Galaxy: 8W-12L-8D (2 games to play)
    .308 2001 United: 8W-16L-2D
    .321 2002 United: 9W-14L-5D
    .321 2002 Wizards: 9W-10L-9D
     
  10. cliffkram

    cliffkram Member

    May 4, 2003
    Brum via NYC
    You can put this year's Wolverhampton on that list too ;)
     
  11. dred

    dred Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    Land of Champions
    It still seems to me the 2001 Mutiny is the worst team ever, by any reasonable metric.

    If you count shootout results as draws, the Mutiny still falls behind the 99 Metros in points per game, which is the most relevant statistic. It's just not right to ignore the fact that the Metros at least managed 8 ties, while the Mutiny only got 2.

    Losing 21 of 27 games outright is remarkable, especially when you consider the Mutiny had some pretty good players. (Ralston, Diallo, Valdarama, Garlick, etc)
     
  12. GreatZar

    GreatZar Member

    Colorado Rapids
    United States
    Mar 29, 1999
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Updated table (<10 wins):

    MLS All-time Worst Win Count (By Win/Gms Pct):
    .125 1999 MetroStars: 7(3)-25 (a.k.a. 4W-3SOW-5SOL-20L)
    .148 2001 Mutiny: 4W-21L-2D
    .172 2003 Burn: 5W-19L-5D (1 game to play)
    .187 1999 Wizards: 8(2)-24 (a.k.a. 6W-2SOW-6SOL-18L)
    .192 2001 Rapids: 5W-13L-8D
    .219 2000 Earthquakes: 7W-17L-8D
    .219 1999 Revolution: 12(5)-20 (a.k.a. 7W-5SOW-7SOL-13L)
    .250 2000 United: 8W-18L-6D
    .250 1999 Fusion: 13(5)-19 (a.k.a. 8W-5SOW-4SOL-15L)
    .259 2001 Revolution: 7W-14L-6D
    .281 1996 Rapids: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L)
    .281 1998 Revolution: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L)
    .281 1997 Clash: 12(3)-20 (a.k.a. 9W-3SOW-6SOL-14L)
    .281 1999 Mutiny: 14(5)-18 (a.k.a. 9W-5SOW-7SOL-11L)
    .281 1996 Revolution: 15(6)-17 (a.k.a. 9W-6SOW-2SOL-15L)
    .281 1999 Clash: 19(10)-13 (a.k.a. 9W-10SOW-3SOL-10L)
    .286 2003 Crew: 8W-12L-8D (2 games to play)
    .308 2001 United: 8W-16L-2D
    .310 2003 Galaxy: 9W-12L-8D (1 game to play)
    .321 2002 United: 9W-14L-5D
    .321 2002 Wizards: 9W-10L-9D
     
  13. GreatZar

    GreatZar Member

    Colorado Rapids
    United States
    Mar 29, 1999
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The '99 Metro had one less loss and one less outright win than the '01 Mutiny. But the Mutiny played ONLY 27 matches (5 fewer matches than the Metro). Surely, in 5 matches, the Mutiny would've won one more (oops, wait a minute, their WinPct was under .200 so maybe not)...;)

    The defining answer is that your chance of seeing a legitimate win from the Metro was only 1-in-8 while the Mutiny somehow won a match 1-in-7 times out.

    Just for kicks, I'll add goals-for/goals-against (but you may need to subtract 1gf for each SOW and subtract 1ga for each SOL -- not sure):

    MLS All-time Worst Win Count (By Win/Gms Pct):
    .125 1999 MetroStars: 7(3)-25 (a.k.a. 4W-3SOW-5SOL-20L) 32gf-64ga
    .148 2001 Mutiny: 4W-21L-2D 32gf-68ga
    .172 2003 Burn: 5W-19L-5D 31gf-61ga (1 game to play)
    .187 1999 Wizards: 8(2)-24 (a.k.a. 6W-2SOW-6SOL-18L) 33gf-53ga
    .192 2001 Rapids: 5W-13L-8D 36gf-47ga
    .219 2000 Earthquakes: 7W-17L-8D 35gf-50ga
    .219 1999 Revolution: 12(5)-20 (a.k.a. 7W-5SOW-7SOL-13L) 38gf-53ga
    .250 2000 United: 8W-18L-6D 44gf-63ga
    .250 1999 Fusion: 13(5)-19 (a.k.a. 8W-5SOW-4SOL-15L) 42gf-59ga
    .259 2001 Revolution: 7W-14L-6D 35gf-52ga
    .281 1996 Rapids: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L) 44gf-59ga
    .281 1998 Revolution: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L) 53gf-66ga
    .281 1997 Clash: 12(3)-20 (a.k.a. 9W-3SOW-6SOL-14L) 55gf-59ga
    .281 1999 Mutiny: 14(5)-18 (a.k.a. 9W-5SOW-7SOL-11L) 51gf-51ga
    .281 1996 Revolution: 15(6)-17 (a.k.a. 9W-6SOW-2SOL-15L) 43gf-56ga
    .281 1999 Clash: 19(10)-13 (a.k.a. 9W-10SOW-3SOL-10L) 48gf-49ga
    .308 2001 United: 8W-16L-2D 42gf-50ga
    .310 2003 Crew: 9W-12L-8D 38gf-42ga (1 game to play)
    .310 2003 Galaxy: 9W-12L-8D 34gf-34ga (1 game to play)
    .321 2002 United: 9W-14L-5D 31gf-40ga
    .321 2002 Wizards: 9W-10L-9D 37gf-45ga
     
  14. Viking64

    Viking64 Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    Tarheel State
    We have Dragon Stadium to thank for it.
     
  15. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only one of many reasons.
     
  16. dred

    dred Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    Land of Champions
    If there's a "defining answer" it wouldn't be this. Points-per-game is a better metric, and ignoring shoot-outs, Mutiny finishes last.

    Goals-for-against is yet more evidence the 2001 Mutiny is the worst MLS team ever.
     
  17. Viking64

    Viking64 Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    Tarheel State
    I think the field was a major factor. The major factor? Yes. I do. Jeffries was no help, the fact that they signed essentially no one until late was no help, but the field sapped the juice of the entire season.

    That's why I'm not expecting a complete turnaround next year either.
     
  18. GreatZar

    GreatZar Member

    Colorado Rapids
    United States
    Mar 29, 1999
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Final table after 2003 regular season finished (<10 wins to qualify -- 2 new entries this year):

    MLS All-time Worst Win Count (By Win/Gms Pct):
    .125 1999 MetroStars: 7(3)-25 (a.k.a. 4W-3SOW-5SOL-20L) 32gf-64ga
    .148 2001 Mutiny: 4W-21L-2D 32gf-68ga
    .187 1999 Wizards: 8(2)-24 (a.k.a. 6W-2SOW-6SOL-18L) 33gf-53ga
    .192 2001 Rapids: 5W-13L-8D 36gf-47ga
    .200 2003 Burn: 6W-19L-5D 35gf-64ga
    .219 2000 Earthquakes: 7W-17L-8D 35gf-50ga
    .219 1999 Revolution: 12(5)-20 (a.k.a. 7W-5SOW-7SOL-13L) 38gf-53ga
    .250 2000 United: 8W-18L-6D 44gf-63ga
    .250 1999 Fusion: 13(5)-19 (a.k.a. 8W-5SOW-4SOL-15L) 42gf-59ga
    .259 2001 Revolution: 7W-14L-6D 35gf-52ga
    .281 1996 Rapids: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L) 44gf-59ga
    .281 1998 Revolution: 11(2)-21 (a.k.a. 9W-2SOW-4SOL-17L) 53gf-66ga
    .281 1997 Clash: 12(3)-20 (a.k.a. 9W-3SOW-6SOL-14L) 55gf-59ga
    .281 1999 Mutiny: 14(5)-18 (a.k.a. 9W-5SOW-7SOL-11L) 51gf-51ga
    .281 1996 Revolution: 15(6)-17 (a.k.a. 9W-6SOW-2SOL-15L) 43gf-56ga
    .281 1999 Clash: 19(10)-13 (a.k.a. 9W-10SOW-3SOL-10L) 48gf-49ga
    .300 2003 Galaxy: 9W-12L-8D 35gf-35ga
    .308 2001 United: 8W-16L-2D 42gf-50ga
    .321 2002 United: 9W-14L-5D 31gf-40ga
    .321 2002 Wizards: 9W-10L-9D 37gf-45ga

    Only the Fire and Crew don't appear on this list.
     
  19. GreatZar

    GreatZar Member

    Colorado Rapids
    United States
    Mar 29, 1999
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After analyzing one of the shootout seasons at MLSnet.com history archives, it turns out their goals-for/goals-against totals (used in my tables) are not padded by the results of the shootouts. So the goals-for/goals-against totals in my table represent actual goals during regulation time during shootout seasons (but you could consider them padded by overtime wins in recent history).

    And I don't care how many times it's quoted in points-per-match, if someone asks me "would you rather watch a team that wins 1-in-7 times or a team that wins 1-in-8?", I'll pick 1-in-7 everytime (meaning the '99 Metros are the all-time suckiest team in MLS history).
     

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