"Futebol dos Gringos" 2014/15 thread [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Mengão86, Jun 2, 2014.

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Next Champions League Winner?

Poll closed Jan 2, 2015.
  1. Real Madrid

    11.5%
  2. Barcelona

    19.2%
  3. Atletico Madrid

    7.7%
  4. Bayern

    11.5%
  5. Chelsea

    19.2%
  6. Manchester City

    3.8%
  7. PSG

    15.4%
  8. Other

    11.5%
  1. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    How's that a bang, he was one of the worst players in Barcelona last year. Hopefully for Chelsea he will recover his form, but just seems that Oscar's days are counted in Chelsea that's all.
     
  2. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    What's your early projections for next season's lineup from the midfield to the attack?

    Maybe @celito can chime in, but I'm not quite understanding Barca transfer window philosophy. They are aging in central midfield, let Thiago go to Bayern and now are letting home grown Cesc go after already letting him slip through their hands years ago? I find it a bit puzzling.....
     
  3. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    He led the team in assists and there were several players who were worse, including Alves. Was he at his Arsenal form? No, but it's a stretch to say he was one of the worst.
     
  4. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I don't think Thiago is a good replacement for Iniesta or Xavi, and Cesc (which was Xavi's replacement) proved he's not good enough to be that.

    I think Barca is doing the right thing, shoring up their D with David Luiz, Mascherano can go to the midfield where he truly should be playing.
     
  5. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    David Luiz? He went to PSG. Barca may be getting Marquinhos, but he's still unproven. Mascherano doesn't have the passing skills to play in their midfield. If anything, he should be the one exiting.
     
  6. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    I agree, I don't get it either. I asked the Barca forum to explain it, and the most sensible explanation was "he's slow", but I don't actually agree with that.........

    I think what Cesc does is give us a lot of license to shift formations. I think in bigger games, you may well see a 4-3-3 with Fabregas, Ramires and Matic in midfield, while against bigger sides, I wouldn't be shocked at a 4-1-4-1, which Fabregas in midfield a bit deeper than Oscar, while Matic plays as a lone holder. We'll see.

    I don't buy that at all. Oscar is 5 years younger and Mourinho loves his willingness to track back and defend. Mourinho sold Mata because he preferred Oscar. Cesc, meanwhile, is the very definition of a luxury player, but one we need to break down defenses.

    My personal preference would be Vidal, but apparently that's not on.
     
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  7. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Cesc's game was always much more like Iniesta than Xavi. That's the biggest reason he struggled at Barca.
     
    Guigs and Mengão86 repped this.
  8. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Stats are just a part of the whole thing, he was supposed to be the controller of the pitch, administrating the game not getting the final pass. Xavi is not an assist king, he's the one that dictates cadence to the team.

    Cesc simply did not do great at the job presented to him.
     
  9. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Thiago went because he forced his way out. He wasn't happy not getting 1st team minutes. I am not sure what the deal is with letting Fabregas go. I think he is unhappy with the setup as well.

    Barca haven't sured up the defense because they believe if they can control the mid, the defense doesn't have to be of the highest quality. It worked for a stretch 4 years. It's really a matter of philosophy and how they want to play. Maybe they were also waiting for someone from their youth system to come up so they don't have to dish out on defenders and riding Puyol and a make shift Mascherano for as long as they could.
     
    nicephoras repped this.
  10. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Exactly!

    That's why he's not needed at Barca. And a Iniesta type player is easier to find than a Xavi type player, which is extremely rare. If Barcelona is looking for a Xavi type player they will be looking for a long time also. They need to move with the time and cater to their current talent, not look for replacements for the pieces they have.

    Forwards you can find them a dime a dozen. CMs like that.. hard to come by.
     
  11. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I understand why they left Barca, but I think Barca could have done a better job at retention. They play a ton of games every year and they midfield is aging. They couldn't tell Thiago that his workload would increase next season and continue to do so. I find it a bit concerning. Now Barca will have to see if they can pry someone away like Vidal.
     
  12. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    You're right for some reason I had David Luiz to Barca stuck in my head, it was one of the earlier rumors along with Cesc to Chelsea from before the season ended, and it just stuck with me.

    This whole passing skill needed for the midfield only works when you have Xavi giving you endless passing lanes, just saying...
     
  13. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Vidal is way too direct; he won't fit Barca at all. The rumor I've heard is Rakitic.
     
  14. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    So Mascherano is just as good of a passer than Busquets or Song?
     
  15. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Maybe they did. Who knows how the conversation went. It wasn't enough. What helped his departure was who was recruiting him...Pep.
     
  16. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Ho
    I'm saying the difference is too small to matter. You're talking like Mascherano will turn over the ball non stop while I'm saying he'll turn over the ball more than either of these players maybe once in every 3 games.... Negligible difference.

    Also both Song and Busquets are not doing key passes or even switching the play from side to side from their positions, they are both easily replaced by any other DM which has quick release on their passing. There are a WIDE variety of players that can do their job and chase down the ball better.
     
  17. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Cesc seem to have excellent first half of a season and then he is poor second half and that been the case for 3 seasons now.
     
  18. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Honestly who is Barcelona's guard dog? they don't have one... Mascherano is a better DM than Busquets.. you can't be the only DM in a team and have less tackles than your defenders.

    That means you're always being left behind or people are just going past you. But on his defense if he had some help from a real DM he would be a lot better at what he does.
     
  19. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    If you pay someone late your still paying them lol. Nautico was even able to pay their wages last year.
     
  20. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    That's not what I meant about not being paid, I don't mean late payment, I mean actually not getting paid... a lot of players end their contracts with their clubs due to wages not being paid, or have to rely on the justice system to have their wages paid.. sometimes that takes years!

    the reality of Brazilian football is that most players make minimum wage, and only something like 5% of the players make a good salary. The median players make around 5-10 salarios minimos per month. Those are statistics by CBF.
     
  21. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Dude those stats include serie c d, semi pro teams, Remo, ect.. You are full of shit. Look at Nasl and other lg's salaries here if your going to go that far down the line.
     
  22. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Come on man, the most common practice in Brazil is not paying players which are not performing up to what the club believes they are worth.

    happens to a lot of players, from Ronaldinho Gaucho to Deivid. In serie A 20% of the players have wages not paid during the year.. 20%!!!

    Do you think Bom Senso is just full of shit then? Because that's one of their biggest complaints
     
  23. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Bom Senso has no clear goals besides shortening the calendar. Ever since Paulo Andre left it has lost steam. Find me the stat where 20 percent aren't paid in full? 3rd party ownership makes stats like this misleading along with sponsors not paying wages due to contractual reasons not met by the player.
     
  24. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    if I ask you to show me these stats can you also produce them?

    I mean it's all hearsay then, let's pretend there's fiscal responsibility from the clubs in Brazil and no team ever lost players in the court system due to non payment of wages... Cause you know that doesn't happen every year.

    In the words of Fahel.. Botafogo hires Seedorf and owe me 700k, they have money for one but not for the other.
     
  25. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Every stat I comment on I can produce, I was just asking for a link to the 20 percent statistic which I could probably poke plenty of holes in. We can just move this to the Serie b thread or wherever.
     

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