FSU Politics/Current Events V

Discussion in 'Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, & the former Soviet Repu' started by Real Corona, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Wonderful. A video to try and normalize the slaughter of innocent women, children and men. That is what Putin and Russians are doing with cluster munitions and bombardment of maternity hospitals. You have no soul if you try and rationalize the murder of innocents. But it's a win-win, right?
     
    Chesco United repped this.
  2. rbubela

    rbubela Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    NorCal
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    #2477 rbubela, Mar 9, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
    Yes, that's Mershmier providing a real politik perspective. I saw it a long time ago, it seems to be going viral now. The thesis goes something like this. Nato violated agreements not to expand east and Russia has a legitimate complaint, moreover US/nato have been tactily encouraging Ukraine and Georgie but those two countries are not core interests to the west and thus have been left to dry. All valid points; however, Mershmier is acting like the real world is a game of Risk

    Mershmier is overlooking human ability of myth and narrative creation and connection. The narrative of Ukraine being a young democracy fighting a despot is not only appealing but has acted as a connection point between Ukraine and the west. There's no other way to describe the support.
    On the flip side. Putin's myth about what and who is part of greater Russian world is the true reason for invasion, not Nato expansionism. In this conflict, there is no rationalism, real polotik that Mershmeir claims. It's all romanticism.

    I wonder if Mershmier has read Vladimir Sorokin, Dmitri Bikov. Russian writers/intellectuals are the ones that have their finger on the pulse not some relic from the Reagan administration.
     
  3. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    [​IMG]

    I respect that.
     
  4. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    3 people dead as a hospital demolished by a bomb leaving a 2-story crater in its courtyard. Shouldn't the casualties be much higher? It wouldn't be because Azov Battalion neo-nazis evacuated the hospital to set up shop there as discussed on March 7th @ UN headquarters is it? You probably think Israel purposefully bombs Palestinian schools too don't you lol?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60675599

    Did you bother to read the article I shared with his latest thoughts? Biggest take away is actually how by doing all of this to Russia, USA essentially alienated Russia to China now, with China being CCCP 2.0 and our real adversary. Russia as this war is proving is relatively weak besides rockets and such. First & foremost I'm an American, if you can't see how this approach is a geopolitical disaster for us take some more time to contemplate the bigger picture

    Also is it safe to say US & NATO fvcked Ukraine & Russia equally with broken promises in the 90's? Ukraine likes to complain about lost Nuke's in the Budapest Memorandum, does Russia have credible gripes for NATO expansion far further than was agreed upon and now ludicrously entertaining the idea of putting US missile systems in Ukraine?
     
  5. rbubela

    rbubela Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    NorCal
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    I think at this point we are discussing over each other. There's a lot of points to digest and Im not motivated to discuss every single one. Broadly speaking and to answer your question, yes I did read the article. Mershmier comes from a certain school of geo-politics real politik. In my opinion, he is clearly missing how cultures mythologize (is that even a word) themselves because myth matters. And to clarify, myths can be a very good thing - like human rights. Of a very bad thing. And when I say myth I mean things that are not observable in the natural world or natural order. You can't convince monkeys to donate 10% of their bananas for favorable position in the afterlife. Though human rights is not entirely a myth because it does appear to be connected to some form of the natural substrate and that is our natural inclination to empathy. For further reading check out Yuval Harrari (probably mispelled) books Sapien and Homo Amedius.

    Now back to Mershmeir and the general school of real politik. To think that the west could align Putin's Russia with them against a burgeoning Chinese nation state is laughable. That shipped sailed in the 90s before China became China. Sorokin already wrote about Russia's departure from the west in 2006, Day of the Oprichnio. Which is why Im wondering why Mershmier fails to see this or maybe he doesn't fail to see it. Maybe he sees it but considers it a tertiary issue. Again, my opinion is myth is the primary issue. I've explained it and you have talked about it with all the Keivan Rus stuff
     
  6. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Appreciate the thought and being able to hold a civil conversation. I don't think regular Ukrainians & Russians are that much different than Americans honestly, especially conservative variety. That's why we settle well here and keep to ourselves and prosper. Family oriented, God oriented, humble and easy going. Putin for all his bad, is still thinking about preserving the Slavic race from this crazy changing world, he won't just let Ukraine go woke, especially since part of that is actually being anti-Russian

    The guy makes a great point, Ukraine's strategy just seems foolish being hostile and angry to a powerful neighbor. You don't see Mexico be that way to USA even tho we stole California & Texas from them. Its because they can't do anything about it yet still managed to win on NAFTA deal and jacking a bunch of American industry that's making Mexico stronger than it should be. If Ukraine was smart that's what they'd be doing. But Ukraine isn't really run by Ukraine, especially so after 2014, which I thought was a popular revolution but it was obviously just a coup like 2004 Orange 'Revolution' was. Maidan started in 2014, Black Lives Matter in 2015 or so, the 1619 Project is beginning to be taught in Ukraine too. Its basically choose the lesser of 2 evils at this point, and my opinions have changed on who is really the evil ones after 2020...
     
  7. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Oh boy....preserving the Slavic race by bombing the same Slavs into oblivion. You're really onto something here. For all the rhetoric you're trying to convey here, I think the point that is perhaps most lost on you is Ukraine is now its own country....whether you like it or not. Russia nor any other country for that matter should determine its future. And while I understand there's a nationalistic element and even an anti-Russian ones in some segment of the population, for the most part (and this is based on my conversations with people who currently reside in Odessa, Kiev, Kharkov, Zhitomir, and a few other places) don't really care about being with Russia on just about anything. I really don't get where you get your information from and why you're so gung-ho on expressing anti-Ukrainian views here, but you're in a small (maybe even a tiny) minority. And forgive me for ignoring your history lessons here, as they simply don't apply to 2022 any more than Mongol invasions of China.

    And for Putin and "all his bad (insert roll eyes here please)", is doing 10000000x more to exponentially increase anti-Russian rhetoric that will send ripples through future generations.
     
    Chesco United and rbubela repped this.
  8. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    You wrote a whole lot of personal feelings and nothing of substance. You're Jewish like myself aren't you? Our race would be wiped off the face of the Earth if it wasn't for the vast Ukrainian land, Russian winter and both people's will to win & survive. Which is what you're witnessing in Ukrainian spirit today, too bad they're brainwashed to fall into the globalist banks hands as a lesser of 2 evils tho. You're not in your 20's anymore, I'm not willing to explain it anymore

    Wonder if you realize that neo-nazis made an abandoned maternity ward their HQ like some Hamas terrorists would and you are essentially supporting them and their ideology taking hold in Ukraine? But then again, you probably support peaceful loving Palestine too tho don't you?

    Btw saw you respect Tymoschuk being cancel cultured for not saying a word about World War 3, do you also support anyone against #BLM communist front, anyone discriminating against people not wearing masks and who don't want to risk an experimental vaxx and any Russian being shunned from society now too?
     
  9. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    This dude actually went from Kyiv to Kharkiv and is just walking around on the streets proving it with Metalist banners on lamp poles lol...absolutely pathetic that no war reporters from CNN, BBC, Fox News etc are in Kharkiv, this might be unprecedented moment in history. More lies & propaganda during wars than election years

     
  10. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    He's a well known anti-Ukraine "blogger." Not sure if he's that pro-Russia or not, but I've seen bunch of his videos and he's quite out there. I guess images and live feed we see from Kharkiv, Kiev, Mariupol, etc....are just fake images too. The super sophisticated Ukrainian propaganda machine managed to full the entire world. Yes, that must be it. You're really losing it.
     
  11. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    What of substance did you write? History of something that happened 400 years ago? And what does my background/ethnicity has to do with anything? I'm starting to think you're trolling. What race are you talking about? Jews, Slavs, Russians, Ukrainians? I'm totally lost. Globalist banks? Protocol of the Elders? Put that crack pipe down.

    So you believe the Russian media that the maternity ward was housing Azov battalion, yet you dismiss every other source that says otherwise. Well, good to know where you stand on your sources. And LOL comparing Hamas tactics to this....like mind blown here. I guess Israel is Russia here, right? Let's set aside that the global support and more specifically the media is anything, but pro-Israel, you have your comparisons all twisted.

    BLM, anti-vaxers.....dude, like you're all over the place....what's with moving the goal posts and all? You've no idea what my stance is on any issue you just mentioned, yet you're extrapolating quite a bit. I'm simply stunned how someone who has access to just about every media outlet in the world and can do the due diligence of an investment banker chooses to take the side of a regime that quite frankly can equate to Khmer Rouge if not worse.
     
  12. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
  13. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Can't believe the playoff v. Scotland was supposed to be yesterday, this month has flown by in a flash. Yarmolenko with 2 legendary goals after not playing for months, his ancestors were with him. The story about him sending his wife & son to Kyiv for a doctor appt a day before the invasion was really sad. Speaking of not playing for months, half our team haven't played a real game for almost 4 months. Might have to call up Aliev to bag a few goals from deep with Malinovsky...

    Wales winning yesterday was a huge surprise for me, and I think its a better matchup for us compared to Austria if we manage to advance

    Of course Boris from UK has brought up giving Ukraine a ticket directly to World Cup and us hosting Euro2028 or something. Incredibly unfair situation for everyone involved besides Poland & Wales
     
  14. rbubela

    rbubela Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    NorCal
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Aliev is with the territorial defense units in kyiv. Can't worry about the Welsh when we have an internal mountain to climb and a good Scottish side playing at Hampden Park

    U21 beat serbia. Surprised they played

    Does Rakitsky have a path back to the NT?
     
  15. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Yea I watched the Bombardir episode with Aliev earlier in the week before writing that jokingly. He's bout it bout it.

    I thought the u21 games were canceled? Did they play a friendly?

    Imagine that Rakitsky could get called up again although he seems painfully slow now. Still better than Krivtsov I'd imagine and could be useful in the 5-4-1 we play now..

    Will take a herculean effort to advance to face Wales, but if we do I think its a better option than Austria for several reasons
     
  16. rbubela

    rbubela Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    NorCal
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Petrakov doubts UA can play against Scotland in June. It seems likely that the war is going enter a stalemate. Russia can't break Ukraine and Russian citizens don't seem to care about breaking the current Russian regime
     
  17. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    I follow a pro-Ukraine and pro-Russian channel on telegram that shows a lot of phone videos from the frontline. Hardly any bragging right videos from Ukraine for about 2 weeks (first 5 days were making a laughing stock out of Russia) until this weekend where they captured Russian soldiers and were shooting their kneecaps out

    First few weeks Ukraine shared videos of the POW's getting tea & food calling to their parents they're ok, now they're calling dead Russian soldiers mom and talking about how they blew off half of her son, clearly things are not going well for them by the cruelty being shown. Russia meanwhile has taken Mariupol essentially, if they seige Odessa and land-lock Ukraine hope they acknowledge the checkmate and people can stop suffering in this senseless war

    Ukraine once again facing some ridiculous playoff heartbreak scenario, imagine people want to give Ukraine a direct ticket to the World Cup but that would be incredibly unfair for Scotland & Wales too. They should give us Qatar's spot as punishment for the thousands killed using disguised slave labor building their stadiums, yet its Russia who was banned from the World Cup...
     
  18. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    fyp

    Checkmate? Do tell what you think that is. Really does sound you're fully in the Z corner in this conflict, which is baffling to say the least. I also sincerely hope you don't follow too many Russian channels on Telegram as 90% of it is complete fabrication.

    You don't think it's a coincidence that in the first few days to 2 weeks when Russia didn't indiscriminately shell cities the Ukrainian army acted benevolently to the Russian POWs and now that we've see what Melitopol and Mariupol look like, those soldiers are emotionally in a different state of mind? You also heard Zelensky and Arestovich explicitly condemn the actions taken by some Ukrainian soldiers to Russian POWs. Waiting for Putin and his cronies to do the same. Want me to share videos of "soldiers" who were "recruited" from Donbas to be forcefully taken to Russia and to then be sent to Ukraine to fight?
     
  19. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    No you don't need to send me the video, I know a chick from Lugansk who told me that it was happening days before the war when you thought this war wasn't possible and that Biden would just allow only 'minor incursions' into Ukraine. Want me to share you videos of American journalists in Mariupol documenting war crimes by Azov? People tortured being used as human shields Hamas style for weeks. Or how about the dead women in the basement of a school with a swastika drawn on her with her own blood, do you want to see that clip?

    Btw there's absolutely nothing more baffling than a Ukrainian-Biden voter being oblivious to the fact their own idiocy led to this. You should pray to God for forgiveness at your earliest convenience
     
  20. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Just came back here tonight as I just saw Dynamo u19 squad will be playing Sporting Lisbon on April 6th in the Champions League sweet 16 or quarterfinal can't remember. Match was to take place in Kyiv after Dynamo prevailed on penalties @ Deportivo La Coruna in front of about 30,000 raucous fans. I bet the Sporting game would've gotten a good 7,000 or so in Kyiv minimum. Its a fantastic crop of players who hopefully can do wonders. This Youth League is a brilliant concept and is slowly beginning to grow in stature. They took elements from March Madness its class

    Also good to see Usyk leave and prepare for a title defense but sad that Lomachenko is staying instead of fighting for titles as well where he belongs. Funny how both were mocked & ridiculed on Ukrainian social media sports pages for loving their Russian connection via language & religion now are considered heroes. Same with the Ukrainian gold medal winning high jump chick from Dnipro, she was blasted during the Olympics for hugging a Russian chick celebrating winning medals, now all of a sudden she's a hero too haha. Ukraine is one of the most complicated tortured countries ever created. Hopefully this all gets settled once and for all.
     
  21. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I still have no idea what exactly are you trying to say. You're evading any clear stance on this conflict. Yes, both side do some atrocious thing....well, this is war, what's new....however, one is clearly the occupant and the invader and soon enough they will be thrown out for good and Russian people will suffer consequences for decades. I don't care which policies you think led to this, US and the West are not innocent, again, everyone knows this, but the utter and complete fault here lies on Russia. If you can't see that being from Ukraine, this is a hopeless exchange and I sincerely hope one day you come to your senses.
     
  22. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Lol @ 1 day come to my senses. I hated Putin & Russia since 2014, and even before then consider Russian people to be annoying & embarrassing in large settings on my travels abroad (not fair to label them all this way but its common)

    But then 2020 happened and the entire world changed, and if you can't see that USA, Canada & Australia are far more repressive than Russia in this new draconian authoritarian world there is no chance in hell you can understand what is happening in Ukraine. You probably think covid originated from a bat in a seafood market in Wuhan right lol?

    Also until someone is able to realize Maidan was a coup d'etat by USA its also a lost cause. Proof among others is the leaked phone call by Viktoria Nuland (daughter of Shepsel Neudelman btw) even before the ousting of Yanukovich where US diplomates debated whether Klitschko or Yatsenyuk would be the new leader of Ukraine. and the very next day after Maidan ended the nationalist bigoted elements managed to get Russian removed as an official language of Ukraine. That's absolutely retarded, many countries have multiple official languages. Its been downhill ever since, Ukraine would still have Crimea & Donbas if not for violently removing an elected prez

    Until about a month ago I always defended Maidan as a popular revolution even tho I came to terms long before Orange Revolution of 2004 was a coup. But its clear now 2004 & 2014 were USA overpowering Russia in its own backyard while Russia was still weak. Those days are over now, the fun & games are over. Ukraine won't be a prostitute being milked by USA & EU anymore. Time to grow the country with hard work instead of prostitution
     
  23. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I don't disagree on the role US and the West had in the Maidan and behind the scenes to make Ukraine a pawn against Russian sphere of influence. However, none of that still excuses what is happening now. Why are you making any type of justifications for Russian actions? What on earth are you talking about re: repressive regimes? Are you completely oblivious to what's going on and has been going on in Russia? How does Canada or Australia and covid even relevant to this conversation. Your country of birth has been invaded and is being terrorized and destroyed by Russia....not US, not Canada, not Azov battalions. Open your eyes!
     
  24. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Medvichuk received 30% of the vote in the last election (that's without Crimea & Donbas mind you), as soon as Biden was elected in Feb. 2021 Zelenksy shutdown Medvichuk's tv stations and later placed him on house arrest (jail). Last week Zelensky banned 11 political parties from operation, including 1 with 40 seats in the Rada, for someone who lives in USA and should come to appreciate democracy & individual liberty, its not me who should open their eyes

    There are millions of Ukrainians just sitting quietly in their homes afraid to say anything against the status quo like in Stalin days. The Head of Police in Kyiv is essentially SS Galicia gestapo type ish. C-14, Right Sector all of these lunatics have gained power positions in the beurocracy. Veteran Affairs leaders resigned, heroes from Battle of Donetsk (Cyborgs) admitted they've been overrun by these Bandera nazis

    The fun & games will be over soon, Ukraine will remain Ukraine, like Scotland in UK, in exchange for that Bandera and all that WW2 nazi ish will be illegal and deemed terrorist symbols. Will be a tragedy to some Ukrainians, will be celebrated by others
     
  25. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Ok, ladno, I guess we get our info from different sources. You want Medvichuk and his oligarch-like pro-Putin ilk to be in power. Whatever.
     

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