Discussion in 'Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, & the former Soviet Repu' started by Real Corona, Mar 7, 2011.
Lets break this thread in a bit...
Medvedev vs. Putin round, oh wait they aren't actually fighting are they. Damn
Another part in the series on the Caucuses.
God, that 2nd article you posted is mighty depressing. What a horrible place, and it's sickening to think that guys like Roberto Carlos and Diego Tardelli are earning millions from the football club while the people live in hell.
Not Roberto Carlos' or Diego Tardelli's fault.
If I had the choice of making $2 million from Kadyrov, or $1 million from a Brazilian suit. I'd take the $1 million.
Do you know if 72 virgins were offered? That could have made the difference
I think Anzhi is now privately owned by some rich guy.
The only positive must be the awareness brought to an otherwise ignored region by Western European media. We all know that Russian media can't be honest about it.
I would honestly be a bit nevous publishing some of those pieces in FP. The Swedish journalist who went to Chechnyia twice in the thick of it who wrote a great book and even met Kadyrov (epic book, forgot the name) - wow, she has nerves that would blow anyone away.
Yes very troubling second article. 150 roubles to rape a 13 year old. Wow, what a world. Can't deny it couldn't happen anywhere, just hard to imagine when reading about it. And such corruption to cover it up.
I don't want to sound insensitive, but in situations like that where justice is impossible, take the $21k and move to somewhere else. Maybe I am biased because that is obviously what all my ancestors did to some degree, but, the writing is on the wall. You can't change Wahhibists minds or rampant corruption on that scale without some mass movement, and obviously that isn't anywhere near to Tunisia-level yet. And Chechnya shows what promoting change will result in.
One thing's for sure, this Medvedev-Putin "feud" isn't a PR move to make Medvedev seem politically relevant .
Where would they move? Moving in Russia is not exactly easy, just start up your life somewhere new. And there isn't much of a difference in the rest of the country anyway. 21K doesn't get you very far either.
21K is probably at minimum 5 times what they earn in a year on average in Dagestan. St. Petersburg I bet for normal people is probably about $12k a year, maybe a little more.
You can't get an apartment in Kharkov for 21k. So I have no idea where they would go that would supposedly be better. I mean I doubt an apartment in Rostov or Krasnodar is much different.
This whole topic is really speculative by me and hard to judge as I have no personal experience of being in such a situation, it just seems on an individual level that accepting the social circumstances of the corruption is the best mode of action. When my ex-Russian gf's mom was starting a visa business after communism ended, she failed to get a visa for someone or something or another and the mafia came to threaten her for the failure and demand the money back times more. She gladly gave it back. Fighting the battle is just something that can't be won.
$21,000 would cover rent for an apartment in a poor area in a big city for quite awhile in my opinion. There have to at least be some muslim/Dagestany population centers in Russia. If the Uzbeks illegally in the country are somehow making it in St. Petersburg, albeit living probably 20 people to a room, it seems a citizen should be able to move. Again this is purely speculative and I am inherently insensitive to the actuality of such a difficult situation.
That's the problem with corruption. Once it starts, it's nearly impossible to get out. Like a bed bug infection.
I just think it's truly hard for us Americans to comprehend how hard it is to move over there. I see some of the migrants from the villages in Kharkov and they lead pretty hard lives. Working 12 plus hours a day for little more than $200 a month. After years of living somewhere you can make connections and move up. But it's just really really difficult. IN America it is hard to understand that. We can just show up in a new town and find a job whenever we feel like it. In Ukraine, nobody is going to give you a job unless they know you or the job is really something nobody wants to do.
My guess is, that many of these Uzbek migrants you are talking about have connections to where they are going. Chain migration is pretty standard across the world. They probably have a cousin or uncle or some sort of relative in Moscow who can arrange them some sort of work or set them up in a community. Without that, it would be near impossible to start up something on your own.
Rough existence, it is literally tough to imagine as I feel I could literally move anywhere in the US. Social connections are much more important elsewhere in the world.
We are considering moving to the midwest in a year or so. My in laws are in a huge fuss about it. They can't possibly imagine how we can move from somewhere where we have established ourselves to somewhere where we literally don't know anybody.
I know I asked this before, but doesn't your wife get annoyed at how much sport you watch and posting with internet people?
We both have our passions. Hahaha
Oh, you could see that coming a mile away - even though the opposition has shown absolutely no predilection towards violence during two fraudulent elections ('06, '10) and a frauded up constitutional "referendum" ('04) allowing Batka the ability to be "Emperor for Life."
No need for tin foil hat references here, I think we all see this for what it is.
So you're in the camp that thinks Lukashenko set this up?
I don't know what to think. The KGB offered three "plausible" possibilities, only one of which was actually plausible, that of some sick individual, the anarchist type, the kind of person that enjoys setting kitties on fire. Right after the one guy confessed (actually, the arrests are up to 5 individuals now, all Belarusians under 30 years old,) Lukashenko went on TV and announced that "perhaps now we'll find out who gave the order," indirectly fingering the opposition, in spite of one of his security chiefs earlier stating the person that confessed as having no political motives.
I wouldn't put it past Lukashenko to pull one out of the Putin playbook - he needs to distract the populace from the fact that the 10% devaluation of the BY ruble a few weeks ago was just the start (if the currency floated it would devalue at least another 40%, the grey market rate right now is 6300 BYR to the dollar and rising, over double the official rate) and the economy is falling apart at the seams and will collapse soon without (at least) a direct $4BN cash injection from Moscow. However, it would seem so obvious, as there's no other obvious motive for another group - there's no motivation from some North Caucasus terrorist group to go planting bombs in Minsk metro stations, and the opposition in the past has done little in the way of violence save for break a few windows the last frauded up election. Batka is not dim, I would imagine he would know that suspicion would automatically fall upon him and his cabal. So, as of now, I just can't believe he would orchestrate this.
But if he didn't and this was just the work of one or two maladjusted nutjobs, would he use the opportunity to make political hay, crack down even further against the opposition, and maybe start squeezing Internet access (as has been threatened in the past? ) Absolutely, I think it is already starting.