Fresno update

Fidlerre, aren't your talents better devoted to helping the Costa Rican team prior to qualifiers with the U.S.? You, know, posting the starting lineup so the many Costa Rican fans here can have the benefit of such confidences. Every time one of our national teams plays in an odd place that I have visited, I post information and answer questions hoping to get people to go. It is truly a thankless task so if someone else wants to do it I would be very pleased. I have never said I am anything great. You are free to call me "an anti-female ignorant prick" but you should be ashamed of yourself for saying such things in a public forum.
As a midwesterner, I never heard of Fresno Stat until I read about the football team. It is the best publicity the school ever had.

 

You mean the ones that come after I post actual facts? Pity that the reality is ignored so often.

Retarding it like the most players ever in Division I as of the most recent NCAA report? Or an increase in overall sponsorship and average squad size in the past 20 years (all divisions included).

Now that's not a personal attack, eh? High. Larry. Us. If I expected my kid to get a scholarship, I certainly wouldn't have been involved in the conception process.

 

Mr. Flannigan,

I would be glad to oversee the postings made to inform people of the many exotic locales our fine sport is played.

However, I am slightly offended and taken aback by the manner in which you so openly denounce Title IX. It has done a lot to benefit everyone, not just the girls.

Maybe you should spend more of your time campaigning for more attention to be put on soccer and less time campaigning against women going to college. I know my school could use some of that football money to buy new jerseys for everyone.

Yours truly,

Elaine

 

Just as a disclaimer, I have no daughters (heck, I ain't even married). My position is that women deserve an equal chance to play collegiate sports. Title IX has helped to do that. It's simple to prove--look at sports before Title IX, and after.

If you want to argue that women don't deserve a chance to play sports, go ahead. I think you'll find yourself in the minority.

 

So now we get down to the real issue with Title IX; it is the interpretation of it, not the actual law itself.

The reality is that while it has helped many, it has also been "used" to attack MEN'S sport rather than build up WOMEN'S sport. There is an anti-male agenda at work in California. The Fresno situation is just one example.

In the case of Fresno, an area which I am very close to, there were several smokescreens thrown up. But the bottom line is that an organized group of liberal feminist activists targeted FSU Men's sports using the "alleged" activities of Tarkanian, along with the "California budget crunch" to force out men's soccer and replace it with 2 women's sports.

On the surface this action seems good for women in that it give them 2 sports while only "costing" men 1. However, closer analysis of the budget deal shows this to be ludicrous.

While a million or two dollars may sound like a lot of money to some people, in the state of California, with an economy bigger than the nation of France, it is literally pocket change. Even within the educational realm it is nothing. Also, as has been documented here already, the amount of money that Tarkanian cost the school is a sham also. It is simply the manipulated use of statistics to cover over the true intent of the attacks. This had NOTHING to do with money and everything to do with politics. If it was about money, why wasn't UC Berkeley forced to give up men's soccer? UCB is part of the same state budgeting program. Or why not UCLA?

No, the "budget" logic doesn't hold water.

For those who do not live in California, and understand the strength of the hold the left wing has on California politics, it is hard to explain. The explanation always seems to come out sounding anti-women's sports when it really isn't. But if you are willing to put aside your own biases and look at the facts, you will quickly see this is deeper than just one school.

My question is: Why do women, and some men, allow these activists to mis-represent the true intent of Title IX and get away with it? There seems to be some blind allegiance at work here that says "if you don't support this program you are a woman-hater." But I guess that all comes with Political Correctness.....

 

Fidlerre posted part of the starting lineup for the U.S. team here on Big Soccer, before the Costa Rica game. Ridge Mahoney my foot. Many people criticized fidlerre for it. Quite rightly. What kind of fan would take confidential information and put it on the Internet for the enemy team's fans to read it?
The misrepresentations on Big Soccer are endless. I don't recall anyone saying women should not have equal opportunity. I am all for that. I object to the Quota
Elaine, I have never campaigned against women going to college. That is a complete fabrication. I am all for women going to college, but I think we have a major problem with the number of men going to college dropping. You can fight all day whether the female market share in college is 57 per cent or 60 per cent. The writing is on the wall as each year the percentage increases. If it was the other way around-only 40 per cent females in college, I would be just as outspoken about the need to address that inequity. Quotas-now illegal-were used to increase the number of blacks in school, who were underrepresented. Women are over represented in school. Why do they need a quota to make it worse?
The whole thing is about welfare. Intramural sports in college are split 80-20 in favor of males. They don't apply the Quota there, do they?
In terms of travel, overseeing a discussion is one thing. I find it much more valuable if I can talk to someone who has actually been to a place. Before and during the World Cup we got a listserve going and avoided the Big Soccer moderators. It worked very well because if we had tried it here the whole patriotic effort would have been sabotaged by flame, ugly cartoons, jokes about DePaul's football team and the same tired old vicious insults.

 

Actually, it's been used to do both at the same time.

You focus too much on the sports. There were sytem-wide budget cuts. This is a small part of a larger problem.

Why do you ignore the fact that this is one piece of a nealry half-billion cut?

So you are denying they had to return several million dollars to the NCAA? And that the defense of the NCAA charges was free?

This had NOTHING to do with money and everything to do with politics. If it was about money, why wasn't UC Berkeley forced to give up men's soccer? UCB is part of the same state budgeting program. Or why not UCLA? [/b][/quote]

It's a little thing called institutional decisions. Each campus got cuts to make. They each decided how to do it. Fresno didn't just cut sports. (http://www.calstate.edu/newsline/Archive/02-03/030124-Fres.shtml) UCLA made its own cuts (http://www.today.ucla.edu/2003/030812budget_cuts.html)

The cuts system-wide are deeper than one school. Fresno made its own decision. For their own reasons. Why does everything have to be black and white? Why is it hard to admit there may be multiple things are work here?

Well with comments in the past you'd understand why some are painted as women haters. One person suggested women would be better off with no sports. One suggested women should take what men give them and be happy with that. Hardly an enlightened viewpoint.

You seem to not understand the position I take. I am not happy this happened. But I understand that not every decision is the same. Title IX is one part of these kinds of decision. There are budget concerns. Everywhere. There are institutional biases. There are conference affiliation concers.

It's not easy to pinpoint the real cause of any decision in higher ed. But it ius realy easy to blame the women and play the martyr. But Title IX isn only one of the symptoms. It's not always the diagnosis.

Why did looking at this from a wider perspective become

 

Very thoughtful post. Indeed anyone who dares to question the Quota is immediately branded a woman-hater or worse. People who have followed the threads here have seen endless flame and ad hominems. Why do people let the extremists get away with it? It is the soft option. Gavora in her book talks about the rigid orthodoxy the extreme feminist groups impose on the public. Anyone who dares criticize the interpretation of Title IX is houded and insulted. Look at Big Soccer. The same thing is going on in other areas of debate, if you can call it that.
is Jessica Gavora a woman hater? Is Kimberly Schuld a woman hater? Is Christine Hoff Sommers and Danielle Crittenden a woman-hater? Of course not.

 

Colleges want the best students. A lot of guys are not working to the levels they should be. It's not Title IX's fault that so many guys aren't applying or getting the necessary grades.

 

fid - I'm guessing that TF thinks that if he repeats something often enough, it will become considered truth (see, Bush, George : Saddam Hussein & 9/11). Please stop Lying Tom.
See, this is why some people hold you in such contempt. This is why there is a "Gang of Seven". It's not about Title IX - it's about YOU! You and your nonsensical comments like the one above.
I don't want to sit here and defend Title IX. I think we all agree that there are major problems with the way that the law is interpreted (and yes, it would seem there is an upper-class bias at work here, but I would need more info to be sure). I think most of us here (yes, even monster) know Title IX needs re-working.
But I am sick of your anecdotal method of arguing, your extremely cavalier use of "facts", and your "Chicken Little" way of thinking.
If I were a wrestler, or gymnast, or swimmer, I would be crapping my pants right now. But we are all soccer fans. On a soccer board. And Title IX has had a limited impact on soccer. The elite players wouldn't lose spots, and there are more avenues for advancement than many sports. We'll be OK for many years, despite Title IX.

Now if you want a cause to reform, how about the ODP, an organization that makes the UN look straight and narrow. An organization that is hurting the development of soccer in the US

 

monster,
Fresno is NOT about budget cuts!!!!!!!
That is the whole point of my posts on this matter.

I don't know how close you actually are to the California budget situation but if you truly are in PA you are probably only getting the media reports of the impact of budget cuts. The truth is that the media, especially newspapers like the LA Times and Washington Post, strongly support the left wing interests that have an agenda of attacking sports in general and men's sports in particular. If you miss that key point, you have missed it all.

The fact is FSU did not reduce the sports budget, they just moved the dollars out of a men's program and put them into women's events. There were NO ACTUAL CUTS here. The Tarkanian situation gave them the smokescreen to get away with it without having to state their true mission.

Yes, there is a huge budget shortfall in California, a fact I know well. However, most of the "cuts" are not really cuts at all, they are just a reduction of the proposed INCREASES in the budget - a bookkeeping fact that is conveniently not reported. This fact introduces an opportunity for some people to bring their agenda to the forefront without having to state the true mission.

If we are to have Title IX interpreted in a positive fashion, we must stop this knee-jerk reaction to everything that happens as being pro-women when that is not the agenda of the "vocal minority" who are attacking men's sports. There is a strong distinction here that must be made but the PC mob has convinced many that you are a woman-hater if you don't go along with their goals. But then I am repeating myself.

 

Then give me some evidence other than you saying it.

http://gobulldogs.ocsn.com/genrel/041503aab.html

The athletics department must reduce expenses by a total of nearly $700,000 in order to submit a balanced budget to the university by next month's deadline.

Wow. They didn't cut the budget, but that had to reduce expenses.

Again. Are you denying that the school had to return money to the NCAA?

Well, here's the rub. Getting rid of planned budget increases effectively cuts a budget if costs outside the university go up. So if it costs the athletic department more money to rent buses, book hotel rooms, buy athletic tape and the budget stays the same or goes down, something else will have to be cut.

That and the fact that everything written on the topic says there were budget cuts seriously undermines your argument that there were no budget cuts and this was just some grand conspiracy.

If your claims are true, they did a horrible job at reaching their aim by cutting a few minor sports and swapping women's golf for women's swimming.

And if we are going to interpret athletic cuts, there has to stop being a knee-jerk blame on Title IX or an anti-male conspiracy when there are other causes out there.

Who's being rational - the guy with no evidence who says there's a conspiracy or the guy trying to look at a number of causes and trying to provide facts?

If you want me to take your point seriously - and I have an open mind on these kinds of things instead of just placing the blame in the same place blindly every time - why not show me some evidence?

 

More evidence that Fresno State isn't such an altruistic place with every penny accounted for.

This was the same guy who Kansas canned in their effort to keep Roy Williams there.

So this was all a smokescreen when they have a hoops program caught with serious misdeeds, a basketball coach who they have topay even though he got them in that mess and an AD who allegedly mismanaged more than $1M in funds (they settled and he returned bonuses so he hardly seems innnocent)?

I'm telling you, it's hard to believe people who say to blame Title IX when there are this many existing problems at CSF and statewide budget cuts for higher education.

 

Thank you (PLEASE HELP)

hello, i have came to this website a few times in the past and stumbled on a few people talking about our program. Im currently a player on the fresno state mens soccer team, and i wanted to say thank you to whoever has been even talking about us because its more than our own school does for us. I just want to know if there is any one who can help us.. i know its probalbly a long shot but we want our program to stay so anybody please HELP... if there is any ideas or anything possible we can do please write back because the day is coming for the school to cut us again. We have about 1.5 million dollars and we need about a million more and we need this before the january 15 deadline. After last year we had to make our own foundation(valley soccer foundation)because the school foundation(bulldog Foundation) is trying to cut us out from their budget. if anybody wants to know more about us or even the facts i know them so please write back, and keep the beautiful game going in fresno

thank you

 

Re: Thank you (PLEASE HELP)

Man, I love FSU soccer....but it is probably best for them to fold the men's team. They simply can't "evaluate" the program year after year. This absolutely kills the recruiting. Who in thier right minds would want to come and play for a team that could be disbanded at any time? This is just crippling the team. They can't be competitive in a tough league unless they make a commitment to keep the program healthy for the foreseeable future. They stepped up to play in the Pac-10 and it's been a disaster.

 

It sure isn't best for the players and people who love the beautiful game to fold the team. If that is the case, terminate women's soccer too and let them share the joy.

 

i dont know about that

yes, it isn't right for any other player to come in here with this kind of situation. I don't think that it has been a disaster for fresno state to enter the pac 10 because even though the first two years they haven't done so well. they lost to ucla 1-0 where the dogs had the bruins on their heels. and Oregon state 2-1 in overtime, plus washington 2-1 on a goal late in the game. they were in everyone of those game plus the other games we lost. I might add they lost to notre dame 2-1 in ot also. so fresno state may not be a top team yet but the dogs are in striking distance. and if youlove the dogs so much have you donated to help?plus the team comes back for four years if this money and they would have to reach ther next goal after the four years.