Free Yourself from Conservative Talk Radio: 12 Steps to Recovery

Thom Hartman is usually worth listening to and/or reading. I usually enjoy his radio show when I have a chance to catch it. There are a few weeks of archived shows here if anyone is interested.

 

Step 1- I am a right-wing PRO democracy supporter. Not mutually exclusive.

Step 2- You can ONLY build a "civil" society with freedom and democracy.

Step 3- I already do, thanks.

Step 4- The beauty of capitalism is this takes care of itself.

Step 5- Labor unions are lazy and unproductive. Did I mention I am a former AND current union member.

Step 6- The founding fathers would spit on this step. Who am I to disagree?

Step 7- Never pretended otherwise.

Step 8- I currently drive a 55mpg Vespa, and ONLY because the LA bus strike forced me off public transport. What are you driving right now, Mel?

Step 9- I am conservative talk radio. Thanks to all who listen.

Step 10- See my step 8. One way to further this along is to drill the snot outta Alaska ASAP.

Step 11- I don't do re-writes. My agent won't allow it.

Step 12- Whatever the heck that means. Steps 1-11 are fine for me, thank you.

 

Re: Re: Re: Free Yourself from Conservative Talk Radio: 12 Steps to Recovery

For my current job. Is it so hard to believe? I've been in unions almost continuosly since the early 1990's.

MOST workers in unions are not productive enough, and get very,very lazy.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Free Yourself from Conservative Talk Radio: 12 Steps to Recovery

Hey, two can play this game!
MOST business executives are profit-whores who try to exploit their workers and dupe their customers.

Aren't logical fallacies fun?

 

How are the same Founding Fathers who wrote the First Amendment anything resembling the theocratic cranks, shills and thieves who claim to speak in their name? Joseph McCarthy was not a Founding Father.

 

Re: Re: Free Yourself from Conservative Talk Radio: 12 Steps to Recovery

The founding fathers never heard of radio or TV. And they never imagined our country would be full of Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists and others who didn't share their puritanical beliefs.

Regardless, things change. That's one of the problems with people who hide behind crap like, "The founding fathers would...".

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Free Yourself from Conservative Talk Radio: 12 Steps to Recovery

Ignorance. Finally a topic with which you are well acquainted.

Look, I've been in unions. My father worked in the auto industry for 30 plus years, and I've seen unions first hand and quite clear. The guys (and women) in the auto unions DO NOT work hard. They do not. They want you to believe otherwise, but it ain't so. These workers have hurt their employers something fierce. Now, you'll want to bury your head and tell me I'm generalizing. Well, when I look at political polls, their sample size can be as little as several hundred people, yet they can be quite accurate. I've seen hundreds and hundreds of lazy union workers. You can't tell me I just stumbled onto the laziest 1%. Please.

 

Is this supposed to be funny or is this guy serious?

 

This Thom Hartmann 12 step therapy totally JerrySpringerized the ideal of liberalism.

 

Cool - i can play this game too.

Conservative & religious organizations are routinely ridiculed and even banned on some "progressive" college campuses in this country. Political correctness in the past 15-20 yrs. has been 1000X more harmful to freedom of speech than anything McCarthy did. Liberals created the language, framed the debate and support it even today because it would demolish their entire belief system if people could REALLY say what they wanted to. Liberals are deathly afraid of freedom of speech for all although they'll never admit it.

 

Re: Re: Free Yourself from Conservative Talk Radio: 12 Steps to Recovery

He must be trying to be funny. On the website, there's a link to a "Cougar" Mellencamp "statement".
It couldn't be serious.

 

Re: Re: Free Yourself from Conservative Talk Radio: 12 Steps to Recovery

Ridicule is another form of freedom of speech, and exactly where have conservative and religious organizations been banned on campuses? Bob Jones University?

Whining conservatives = comedy gold

 

Re: Re: Free Yourself from Conservative Talk Radio: 12 Steps to Recovery

yeah i'm gonna need to see some links on these bans

oh and i love the "only liberals perpetuate political correctness" garbage - PC is an overreaction to a genuine need for more respect between people - yes it gets silly sometimes, but i'm not sure that you should whine about it because nobody is stopping you from mouthing off in a ridiculous manner

 

I am deathly afraid of when Cascarone Pete Sa speaks.

 

Re: Re: Re: Free Yourself from Conservative Talk Radio: 12 Steps to Recovery

here's one example:

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkyJmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2NDQ1MjU0

and free speech is not limited to just popular or correct speech. there's no guarantee that your sensibilities won't be offended by the time you're an adult. and if the speech is that offensive, it will be easily discredited. PC guidebooks are only needed by those people who have never been exposed to the real world off college campuses (ie. - many professors).

 

here's the article about the christian group being denied recognition at MSU:

Christian student group again denied chapter at MSU
[e-mail] [print]

Thursday, October 30, 2003

By JOHN CHADWICK
STAFF WRITER

Campus Crusade for Christ is a venerable Christian organization with the motto, "Win the campus today and change the world tomorrow."

But the group is having a tough time winning the campus at Montclair State University.

For the second time this year, the university's Student Government Association has turned down a bid by students to launch a campus chapter.

And the latest rejection could spark a lawsuit and thrust the usually low-key campus into the nation's cultural wars.

The student association president, Jacob V. Hudnut, last week vetoed Campus Crusade's application to become an official student organization after it was approved by the campus legislature. Hudnut said his veto was based on what he saw and heard during a meeting two weeks ago at which the prospective chapter came before the association.

Hudnut, who is gay, said a presentation by the group's student leader showed intolerance for homosexuals, insensitivity toward non-Christian religions, and a belief that the United States was founded on purely Christian principles.

"It calls into question the type of environment this leadership would create," Hudnut said in a statement explaining his veto.

But the leader of the Christian group, Desmond Sugar, contends he was goaded into discussing his position on homosexuality.

"They were throwing questions at me left and right," Sugar said. "It seemed like they were trying to stir me up and go on the attack."

Campus Crusade, like most evangelical Christian groups, including two others at Montclair State that are approved organizations, believes homosexual behavior is sinful.

But the group stressed that it isn't confrontational.

"It was the Student Government Association that made homosexuality the issue, not us," said Mark Scott, a Campus Crusade staff member who works with the New Jersey chapters. "We don't beat people over the head with Bibles. We simply want to be a spiritual resource for students at Montclair State University."

Scott said he's consulting with a lawyer to determine his next step.

"It's obvious they are keeping us out because of our beliefs," he said. "And that goes against the Constitution of the United States."

Campus Crusade is a worldwide evangelical organization, maintaining a presence on more than 1,000 colleges. Members typically distribute religious literature and conduct Bible studies in the hopes of converting students to Christianity.

The 10 students at Montclair State need the approval of the Student Government Association to become an official campus club. If approved for a charter, the group would have access to on-campus space for meetings, and the possibility of funding for its events and an office with a telephone.

University officials said they're staying out of the fight. Karen L. Pennington, a vice-president for student development and campus life, said the student association maintains its own corporate identity, separate from the university.

"It's their decision to make," Pennington said. "We work with them. We advise them. But we do not take positions on their issues."

With its large numbers of older students who commute to class, Montclair State's student body is generally perceived as being more pragmatic than political. About one-fifth of the 15,000 undergraduate and graduate students live on campus, an official said.

But faculty members said the campus prizes its atmosphere of tolerance, and has seen a growing acceptance and support for gay students and teachers. The campus recently was the site of a rally for gay marriage rights.

"We may not be an overtly political campus, but neither are we a bastion of unprogressive causes," said Mark A. Koppel, and associate professor of psychology and co-chairman of the Gay and Lesbian Faculty and Staff Association.

One dean said campus politics have always been lively.

"We've always had a very intensely activist student government," said Helen Matusow-Ayres, dean of students. "Every year, we have passionate arguments."

Campus Crusade was founded by evangelicals Bill and Vonette Bright, who started the first chapter in 1951 at the University of California, Los Angeles. The organization now has a full-time campus ministry staff of 1,700.

It issues "freshman survival kits" with a Bible, alternative Christian music CD, and video. It also holds its Big Break every March at Panama City Beach in Florida.

The group has active ministries at about 20 New Jersey colleges, including Rutgers and Princeton universities, Scott said. William Paterson University, Ramapo College, and the Fairleigh Dickinson University campus in Teaneck do not have chapters, but Scott said he's organizing a branch at Ramapo.

Montclair State has twice rejected the group. It's first bid, last spring, was turned down by the student legislature.

The legislature approved the charter by a 27-13 vote this semester. But only 19 members voted to override Hudnut's veto, failing to get the necessary two-thirds majority. The group can reapply next semester.

Hudnut said his veto was based completely on Sugar's presentation and said there's nothing in the organization's beliefs or principles that would disqualify it from being on campus. He also rejected the suggestion that his sexual orientation played a role, saying he has cordial relations with the two other Christian groups on campus.

"I removed myself personally from this," Hudnut said. "That is why the veto was issued one week after [the vote]. I spent hours and hours on this."

Hudnut can't remember exactly what Sugar said at the meeting. And there are apparently no audio or video recordings. Hudnut said Sugar did speak disparagingly about homosexuality, dwelling on "sin" and "promiscuity."

But Scott, of Campus Crusade, said that shouldn't be the basis for a decision.

"The issue should be: Did we meet all the requirements to become a club? And we did."

 

well the bergen link didn't work, but the MSU denial seems quite crap... still i wonder who is john chadwick a staff writer for?

 

Could you elaborate on this?

Some liberals. CP, please don't say "liberals are X." Just precede the claim with the word "some." Your claim will be true. And your claim will avoid confusion.

If you want to say that "most liberals are X," that is fine. But then it would be helpful if you gave evidence to try to support the claim. It's not clear to me that most liberals are "deathly afraid of freedom of speech."

 

As an ultra-progressive, I think that trashing homosexuality is the same as trashing people of different races, and depending on what the guy actually did say, "goaded" or not, the CCC shouldn't be surprised if they weren't welcomed with open arms.

But this one instance does kind of reek, so I'm going to side with Cascarino on this. Sounds like the SGA president has way too much power on this campus. If you're going to spitcan a group, you'd better remember exactly what was said, and have records of it.

However, this isn't anti-Christian bigotry, since there are Christian groups on the campus. It's anti-intolerance. And, needless to say, I don't get how this is a thousand times as bad as McCarthyism - even the article says these clowns have chapters in damn near every other campus around.

 

If it is unfair to discriminate based on one's sexual preference then certainly someone with strong (though not necessarily popular) religious beliefs should be equally protected. MSU is going to lose big if this goes to court.

If this was a muslim group seeking club status on campus with the exact same views on homosexuality, they'd be admitted in a heartbeat. I'm definitely not pro-religious right, but they are one of the few groups that can be openly & zealously discriminated against in the US. I find it distasteful and not very democratic at all to shun a national organization.