PBP: Free Jim Comey! Free Tish James!

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by The Jitty Slitter, Sep 27, 2025.

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  1. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    Sadly it’s been normalized. And a willingness to go after all of the law breakers in this administration now needs to be a prerequisite to even make the consideration list next time.
     
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  2. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    So many lay people struggle to understand this dynamic and seem to think it means the Judge is biased.
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    i think it's most likely Halligan misled the GJ by selectively introducing evidence and failing to produce the exculpatory stuff.
     
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  4. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
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    It's one of the things that I think Ken really tries to stress in his podcast---and rightly so. Losing credibility with the judge is usually really bad for your case.
     
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  5. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
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    But prosecutors actually do that all the time. You're not required to present the other side's case during a presentation to a grand jury proceeding.
     
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  6. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
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    Ah, so 'misled' means a sin of omission in this case. Not as in 'telling a lie'.

    But...
    I'd have thought so, yes.

    Don't they also have to pass on relevant facts to the defence during one part of the trial? Isn't that called 'dicovery'?

    Like this bit...



    Except if Halligan knew of something and was aware the defence didn't, isn't that a punishable offence?

    At the start of a grand jury hearing, do the legal people have to make a statement that what they're saying is true to the best of their knowledge?

    I don't know... and that's despite me having watched every episode of Suits :) *


    * Actually I've never seen it, but that's not as funny, so...
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Yes. But I think in this case Preet is suggesting that the Halligan has selectively shown evidence and withheld exculpatory info so as to manufacture probable cause - in a situation where DOJ not only knows, but also believes the standard for prosecution is not met.

    IMO this is different to showing the GJ the best version of your case without the D version and could rise to the kind of thing she ought to be struck off for as you alluded to above. At some point you are actively misleading the GJ into a false indictment,
     
  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    I think we will find she has actually lied. If you hold the evidence that shows Comey actually didn't commit the crime alleged, and your own DOJ prosecutors think the indictment can't succeed, but then you bring it in bad faith, I think you are doing more than simply omitting the defendant's best evidence. As Yoss says, you are allowed to bring your best case, but you are not allowed to bring a fake indictment based on blatant misrepresentations.

    Discovery is where all this will come out, as IIRC the GJ materials are all discoverable.

    Joyce and Preet argue that Comey may well take the unusual step of digging into the GJ process to show to the judge this is a bad faith prosecution that ought to be dismissed. e.g If you could show Halligan knowingly misrepresented Comey's conduct to the jury, then that helps you with your argument that it's a malicious prosecution.
     
  9. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    As I understand it, it is merely DoJ’s long standing policy to not seek indictment unless they believe they have admissible evidence to prove all aspects of the charged crimes beyond a reasonable doubt. I don’t believe there is a statutory requirement to do so. And probable cause is a much lower barrier than bard. I’m not sure the courts can sanction DoJ attorneys for not following their internal policy. The objective is the indictment. I don’t think there is a DoJ attorney that actually believes they’ll win at trial. And when they lose….they get to blame the judge. Heads they win, tails we lose.
     
  10. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
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    Discovery comes after the indictment. No need for discovery if you're not indicted.

    And yeah, you can't blatantly lie during a grand jury proceeding. But they're extremely one-sided in favor of prosecution.
     
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  11. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
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    Sure I get what Preet is saying and don't disagree but there are still levels to this.

    So for instance, say they're indicting someone for armed robbery. They present their evidence that they think Bob Smith robbed the liquor store, here's the evidence, X, Y, Z. They don't have to tell the grand jury that Bob's best friend Mike, will testify under oath that Bob was hanging out with him that night across town. That's obviously possibly exculpatory evidence----but it still comes down to credibility for a jury to determine.

    Now the much thornier example (and possibly what Preet is alluding to) would be good friend Mike has a video of Bob doing some drunk, very bad karaoke, across town from the robbery with the info in the iPhone's GPS, etc., proving that Bob was with Mike doing a horrible version of Don't Stop Believin!. If a prosecutor goes forward with an indictment knowing that----that could be some trouble for them.
     
  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Agreed - that is the difference.
     
  13. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
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    Of course, if during discovery, the prosecution didn't divulge even scenario 1 to the defense, that would be a Brady violation.
     
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  14. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    #114 Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 6, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2025
    Not sure who was behind this fire yet. But Trump-inspired fascism has to be high on the list.

    If criminal, let see if Donnie condemns it. :rolleyes:

    The home of South Carolina Circuit Court judge Diane Goodstein was set on fire after she had reportedly received death threats.

    State law enforcement is investigating the house fire on Edisto Beach which began at around 11:30 a.m. E.T. on Saturday, sources told local news outlet FITSNews. Goodstein was reportedly not at home at the time of the fire, but at least three members of her family, including her husband, former Democratic state senator Arnold Goodstein, and their son, have been hospitalized with serious injuries. According to the St. Paul’s Fire District, which responded to the scene, the occupants had to be rescued via kayak. Law enforcement have not disclosed whether the fire is being investigated as an arson attack...


    ...The 69-year-old judge had received death threats in the weeks leading up to the fire, multiple sources told FITSNews. Last month, Goodstein had temporarily blocked the state’s election commission from releasing its voter files to the Department of Justice, a decision that was openly criticized by Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Harmeet Dhillon and later reversed by the state Supreme Court. The DOJ had sought the information, including names, addresses, driver’s license numbers, and social security numbers, of over three million registered voters as part of President Donald Trump’s March executive order restricting non-citizens from registering to vote. (Non-citizens are already not allowed to vote in federal and state elections.)

    upload_2025-10-6_8-48-36.jpeg

    https://time.com/7323442/south-carolina-judge-diane-goodstein-house-fire-trump-political-violence/
     
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  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    The wording of the standards differ by jurisdiction but in general you need the low PC standard to get the arrest warrant but you'll need to meet some version of a case to answer test to get through a prelim. So that means in general you don't indict people unless you think you have at least a better than even chance of convicting at trial.

    I agree you can likely get away with indicting people on flimsy cases, but you do have to be very careful or you can end up facing a gigantic civil claim - not that this DOJ would care

    I think in this case, misfeasance in the GJ phase more goes to getting the case tossed because it would highlight that the prosecutor themselves was acting for ulterior purpose.
     
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  16. superdave

    superdave Member+

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    Does the federal government have immunity? I think it does.
     
  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    i think you can sue the individual officers but not in their personal capacity

    Barry Morphew recently sued the FBI as well as state agencies for what he alleged was a indictment based on evidence 'fabricated' by the FBI agents
     
  18. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    This isn’t about getting an arrest warrant. This is about getting an indictment. And almost every former USAttorney I’ve seen on Bluesky, including Barb McQuade, has stated the DoJ only has to establish probable cause the prime has been committed in order for the grand jury to indict. Their policy is to make sure they have WAY more than that or not even go to a GJ…but the legal requirement is PC. Now…if they misrepresent the evidence they put forward to establish PC (as opposed to omitting exculpatory evidence) they’re in deep shit. But I’m not sure that has happened here
     
  19. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
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    You can sue agents of the federal government under what's termed a Bivens action. But as I'm sure will not surprise you, the Roberts court has made those more difficult to litigate.
     
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  20. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

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    He is abusing the judiciary to go after his political enemies, it is at minimum a dangerous erosion of democratic standards.

    If you are going to need to see Schumer and Jeffries dragged off to a camp to believe it's fascism, your threshold might be a tad high.
     
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  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    #121 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 6, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2025
    I am not sure why you are lay 'splaining this to me.

    These types of process start either with arrest affidavit or grand jury depending on jurisdiction. But it doesn't make sense to indict without holding enough of a hand that looks like it will succeed at trial. One big reason is the existence of preliminary hearings where you have to show case to answer. So all around the world e.g the Crown Prosecution Service - the prosecutor does not indict unless they are confident of conviction. It's not just DOJ policy - it's basically how everyone does it, including state prosecutors

    AFAIK, the federal criminal jurisdiction does not have a prelim, but according to Joyce, the Court still has inherent jurisdiction to dismiss if the indictment does not indicate a crime on it's face.

    That is why evidence of arsejapery in front of the GJ could be critical - because it looks like there can not possibly be a crime that could go to a jury here, unless the government has something we don't know about.
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    This is what happened in Morphew's scam-suit

    Luckily the whole thing went off to die in a gutter after his wife's body turned up in a shallow grave and now he has been re-indicted - by grand jury FTW.

    It was part of an 'innocence fraud' effort by a particularly unethical defence attorney in colorado. In general what you do is claim you've been framed, and then if you can get off, sue the state/feds for millions - of course hoping to settle it.

    Alan Jackson is in the process of doing this in Boston for his most innocent client ever Karen Read.
     
  23. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    #123 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 6, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2025
    Things will become clearer soon we hope (unless DOJ simply fails to provide discovery on time - another strong possibility IMO).

    This jurisdiction has the rocket docket, and Joyce felt it will probably go to trial very early next year. This isn't one where DOJ can spin it out for 2 years.

    In Preet's opinion, the statement "i stand by my previous testimony" in response to a question by Cruz about McCabe, cannot possibly support this indictment.

    So either Halligan has misled the GJ, or she has some secret evidence no one knows about.
     
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  24. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    It was you, not me, that brought up PC and warrants. Yet I don’t accuse you of lawsplaining that completely irrelevant fact.

    All DOJ (Trump really) wanted was an indictment. And a perp walk (though they ********ed that up as well. They all know they’re gonna be able to convict comey. This isn’t some huge revelation.
     
  25. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
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    @Val

    Clean up on aisle 4 :)
     
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