I was wondering what would happen if we lost, say, Bobby Rhine, who I believe is a free agent this year, to another MLS team or if we lost, say, Jorge Rodriguez left the league. Would we get any compensation, like an allocation? If we got an allocation, could we use it on a player in the draft like was possible a couple of years ago? To get an allocation would we have to tender the player a contract? Furthermore, how exactly does free agency work in the MLS? Is Rhine bound to us unless we don't want him? I hope this isn't one of the many subjects that MLS doesn't explain to its fans at all. Thanks in advance.
There are no "rules" per se. But this much is clear. If the Burn does not want to resign Rhine, they get nothing, even if he goes to another MLS team. If they tell MLS to sign him and then trade him, that's different. If the Burn does not tell MLS to pick up Zarco's option, they would get nothing but cap room when he does not return. If the tell MLS to take his option, then trade him, that's a standard trade. There are two kinds of discovery players. Expensive, and inexpensive. This is on a case by case basis, it's not a rule. If you missed the playoffs, you can ask for an expensive discovery. If you made it to MLS Cup, don't bother. It's unclear today if NY and DC earned the right to sign expensive discoveries, that used to be called "you-suck allocations." The League may still give "you-suck allocations," but it's the teams that pick the players. We know discovery options can be traded. So for instance the Burn might try to sell Kreis for an "allocation" which is a discovery option for an expensive player, which they would use to sign a guy they know of, that costs more than your typical discovery player. Since they traded a high salary player for the right to the allocation, it works. Earnie Stewart is another example. He's no discovery, in terms of finding him, or paying him. Word is LA still has an old "allocation" right to use on him. But shouldn't old allocations expire when you win MLS Cup? Or, should they be forced to trade it? To the Burn? For Percy Olivares? Of course!
So, speaking of Olivares, are we stuck with him until his contract expires (are contracts guaranteed in MLS)? Does anyone know how long his contract is, or how big it is? With Rhine and Broome, would we be able to sign them and then trade them immediately (the NBA has an extended no-trade period after resigning a free agent)? Would they be able to go to another team if we didn't offer them what they wanted, or if we knew we were going to trade them? Thanks for all the answers already.
Almost no contracts are guaranteed. A few were early on, with players leaving lucrative deals to start up MLS. The big names then did get certain guarantees because no one knew of the league would survive 12 weeks, much less 7 years. A guy like Olivares is not going to have a guarantee past Dec. 31. They may tell him to find a new gig while you can, and we'll release you free if you find one. Otherwise we'll trade you to another MLS team, or cut you. A sign-then-trade deal is certainly possible. I have not heard of a "no trade" period. I'm not sure the player would appreciate it, because they would be negotiating with Ivan thinking they were going to stay at a team, and later get traded. It's a risky strategy because if a team tells MLS to sign a player and then your trade deal falls through, Ivan ain't gonna let you skate on that player. He just signed a contract with them and there's going to be a signing bonus of some kind, so a guy like Rhine can buy himself a car or something. The rules seem complex, but actually they are not. If you go to 3rd Degree in the spring, we keep up a "Roster Dance" area that explains the numbers side.
I am working on the Roster Dance already. Suffice it to say Allocations are really a dead idea. Except that LA has one. Plus I believe Metro and DC will get a player for missing the playoffs. Each team can ask for current players to be re-signed. But they way it works is the team will tell MLS office they want to re-sign a player at a specific cap space number. MLS will then negotiate a deal. Outside of that there is the draft, and each team gets two Discovery Signings, which Viking did a good job explaining. As he mentioned there are really no guaranteed contracts. Any player they don't want they just cut. End of story.
From what I have heard about Stweart, placing him in Dallas looks like to be a good bet. Of course this was during the World Cup and Stewart likes Dallas for somereason(it escapes me at the moment). He wants to play some of his finals years in the MLS and I'm sure he will make a deal with the league to make sure he goes where he wants.
Thanks Viking, 3rd Degree. Have there been any sign-then-trade deals that have gone down in MLS? I suppose a player would not be allowed to re-sign with the MLS contingent upon going to a specific team? Also, will Rhine and Broome be looking at significant pay raises (if you have any idea)? They are coming off rookie contracts, which are pretty paltry, correct? On another subject, how does the drafting of P-40's work? They have to have living arrangements, right, which discourages teams from outside their region from drafting them? The Burn asked MLS to sign Arturo Alvarez for the draft (if I remember correctly) so essentially every team knows that we want him. So if say the Crew drafted him in the first round, would MLS broker a deal between the two teams which they deemed fair, or would the Burn have to ransom him themselves? How do these things get sorted out, and, for instance, how does the star of the U-18 team get drafted 19th? P.S. Sorry for all the questions, but I've pretty much just been following soccer since after the World Cup. I read 3rd Degree pretty regularly, it's a great site. I have a question though: I was trying to look at practice observations from last years, but couldn't find them. Could either of you point me in the right direction?
Not that I am directly aware of, but could have been. Winston Griffiths was won in a lottery, then traded twice in a single season. That's as close as I remember. That used to happen. Albright and Convey both did that, but they stopped allowing that. Now they tell them either go in the draft, or a lottery. Yes to both. How much of a raise is open to question. Their best bet is to wait until spring when the new salary cap number is known. I figure they can both double their salary and stay under 100k each. They both started an entire year. But then Rhine is hardly a leading scorer, and has lots of competition. Broome can ask for more cause he's so damn fast. That's kind of back-room stuff. It could happen that way. But if you go P-40, as far as I know you have no say. But the Burn could use a discovery for you just before or after the draft (I forget which) and then sign you to a developmental contract, which although not P-40, is a developmental roster spot anyway. The Star of the u-18 team got drafted that late because he's not starting right now. MLS teams use their first pick for a starter, period. EJ was not a starter in anyone's book, but a great prospect for 2 or 3 years. Gbandi WAS a projected starter, but injury kept him out. Twellman, Carrieri, plenty of first rounders were expected to start within a few games. I'll let him answer that.
OK let me say that I can't quote the rules, but here is my understanding. Players in High School (minors) usually have a living arrangement set up (Convery at DC). But not all P-40'a are minors. If they are 18 they are on their own. When Ed Johnson was first drafted he lived with Coach Haynes. Now that he is 18 I understand he lives in an apartment with another player (but I am not sure who). Same as Convey moving out of GM's house in DC. If a team asks MLS to sign a P-40 there is no protection. They have to hope no one picks him. Like Rodrigo Faria for Metro when he was in the pool and Metro had no 1st round pick. That is where game day deals happen. Remember Copano (sp?) that Chicago took this year with Dallas pick? That deal happaend for future considerations; which, by the way, was the discovery pick to take O'Brien. It was Dallas's pick, but Chicago wanted him. Not a perfect example but similar. They are there, but not visible, I was trying to reorganize the archives section and got distracted by the season. I have taken up that project again and they will be easier to find soon.
As I understand it, LAG has an allocation because the league sold Greg Vanney to Bastia. Rather than Earnie Stewart, the word around here is that the allocation will be used to sign the captain of the South Korea national team after the K-League season is over. And would I be willing to see that allocation go to the Burn if LAG could be gauranteed the MLS Cup this year? You bet your sweet bippy.
Not exactly correct. Convey was drafted with a late first round pick (10 or 12, I can't recall which). 3D is mostly right on the P-40, but here's the exact answer. If a player is under 18 the club MUST file a living arrangement, schooling/tutoring plan, and provide a mentor (parental figure). Then the parents must OK the plan. Once both of those things have been done, then--and only then--is the team allowed to draft the player. If the player is 18 or over, then they're treated as an adult, and need none of the previous arrangements. But, some parents are concerned, and my understanding is that the league has given informal assurances to some parents on some of these issues. As for Eddie Johnson, the reasons he wasn't drafted earlier were 1) he wasn't going to join the team until very late in the season, so there was zero chance of him making any contribution that season and with coaches not being so secure, very few wanted to take that risk. 2) his mother (or grandmother, I can't remember which) wanted him physically close to home. While Dallas isn't really close, it's one of the few teams that is relatively close. 3) With DC United set to take the local product Santino Quaranta--from Baltimore--there was knowledge that they wouldn't take both he and Johnson. So Dallas really didn't have almost any competition for Johnson, so they waited longer to select him than one would have expected. Shrewd drafting by Jefferies. -Tron
well, ok, I don't pretend to know everything you said Tron. But I do now! It makes sense that unless you really want to draft someone else's P-40 it's not worth it. You have to prepare an entire plan, and then might not get him anyway. I appreciate the more complete picture. But you will agree I think that the Olsen situation won't happen again: a kid in college says "if I don't get to play at DC I'm not joining MLS." MLS told Kelly Gray to get in the draft, and had Akwari been smarter, he'd have been in the draft too.
Any idea on why Johnson wasn't drafted by either Tampa Bay or Miami? In the 2001 draft, Tampa picked forward Devin Barkley at the #2 spot in the 2nd round and Miami picked forward Ali Ngon at the #6 spot in the 2nd round, one spot ahead of Dallas. If Johnson was as hot a prospect as everyone says, I'm surprised neither of the Florida clubs drafted him in the 2nd round when given the chance.
That is puzzling especially as he was a Florida kid. Do you think Miami wants a do over on Ali Ngon at the #6 spot? I guess since they were contracted this would never have come up but did Ngon even make their team?
I think Ngon was on the Fusion's roster for the entire 2001 season but only played in spring training for them. Apparently he's back in the A-League now.