Fred's '' penalty ''

Discussion in 'World Cup 2014: General' started by little airplane, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. FiveXChampion

    FiveXChampion Member

    Sep 23, 2000
    California
    Club:
    Fluminense Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #126 FiveXChampion, Jun 13, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
    Yeah! Perhaps we should take the 1986 World Cup title from Argentina and give it to England because Maradona scored with his hand. ;)

    [​IMG]

    Well, the defender was deservedly punished for putting his hands on a striker inside the box. While I agree that it didn't warrant a PK, I miss the time when all that pushing and shoving wasn't allowed in football and flair and skill were not overshadowed by raw strength and brutality.

    Referee's are human and make mistakes. Spain just got a gift from the referee, Mexico had legal goals invalidated... I wonder how many will say Spain and Cameroon bought the men with the whistle
     
  2. Plxix

    Plxix BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 13, 2006
    Still not worthy of the Rivaldo Award. Next.
     
  3. Curt-John

    Curt-John New Member

    May 17, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Really? The first US match against Ghana?
    Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. (I'm sayin' it as the famous Brazilian "goaaaaaaaaaal")
    USA never had chances with ref...
     
  4. SoccerMomof2

    SoccerMomof2 Member

    Chelsea
    Nigeria
    Feb 23, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    Lol I totally agree
     
  5. Plxix

    Plxix BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 13, 2006
    Ya in 2010 group stage, the US had more legit goals disallowed than England have scored. Mexico is in the lead this WC.
     
  6. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar

    Oh so now you're going to shit on Atletico because they lost the final? LOL ... Classy ... Apparently winning league and reaching CL final is now considered not good enough ...

    As for the Brazil match I have no idea what you're talking about. Games aren't "deserved". You either win or you don't. Up to the point the PK was gifted Croatia was earning a point. Sure bad calls are made all the time, but that doesn't mean it's OK. Not talking about it and just calling it "part of the game" just ensures that nothing ever changes. If anything I think there should be more outrage so FIFA would take their heads out of their asses and speed up progress in this area. Whether it's instant replays, more technology assistance, more referees behind the goal ... whatever it takes. The status quo is not good enough ...
     
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  7. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    This is exactly what happened. No need for a conspiracy theory.
    Mexico got robbed as well - is FIFA trying to give the World Cup to Cameroon?
    Brazil had a very promising attack by Oscar being wrongly called off-side. Was the linesman trying to give the World Cup to Croatia?

    Human errors happen in football. The ref only had a frontal view, no side view, the defender's hand was on Fred's left shoulder, Fred was a good enough actor to simulate the movement of being pulled back, the ref bought it.

    If this ref intended to favor Brazil he wouldn't have yellow-carded Neymar. This can be potentially more damaging to Brazil if he gets another one and misses the round of 16, than a tie with Croatia in a group that also has Cameroon and Mexico. Brazil would advance with a tie, but without Neymar in the round of 16, might get eliminated. Especially given that it was so early in the game, a ref intended on helping Brazil might get away with just verbally scolding Neymar, pretending to be holding on showing cards so early in the game, and it would have been the wrong decision, but it would fly. By showing an early yellow card to Neymar the ref proved that he wasn't trying to help Brazil.

    This said, and even though I'm entirely convinced that the penalty was a fake and a dive, I disagree that Croatia deserved to win the game - not even tie. People got emotional because of the dive and the bad call, and they got blinded by their outrage, therefore unable to objectively analyze the game.

    Croatia shot all of FOUR shots on goal. Brazil shot three times more. Croatia didn't score, not even once. Their only score was an own goal. How do you deserve a win when you only shot four times and you don't score??? What exactly did they do to deserve the win, except for being the victims of a bad call? They had only 41% of possession (and this, because when they were behind in the second half they tried harder - but first half possession had them even lower at 35%). Their disallowed goal was correctly called back. It wasn't apparent on the first image, but on replay we can see that the attacker clearly disrupted the goalie's action, and most refs will call that (again, no conspiracy theory needed).

    So, Brazil's actually deserved victory got tainted by a player who dived and an incompetent ref who believed him. Period. No more, no less. The fix is not in. It's just that FIFA officiating, with this thing of bringing in refs from weak leagues and confederations, is often atrocious.

    It was a bad coincidence that such an atrocious decision was made right at the opener, favoring the hosts. It gives the impression of impropriety and it raises suspicions. But anybody looking dispassionately at this will have to conclude that it was human error. If the ref had a side view of the play, I'm convinced that he wouldn't have called the penalty, and would have yellow-carded Fred. Remember, this is the same ref who wrongly yellow-carded Kaka in 2006 against Holland, for what he thought was a dive, but was actually a penalty.

    So, if you guys are talking Karma, that's the Karma. He robbed Brazil of a penalty that would have placed Brazil at 2-0 against Holland before half time. Now he gifted a penalty to Brazil. We're even. Or not, because that botched Kaka interpretation effectively eliminated Brazil from a World Cup, while this gifted penalty if not given wouldn't have prevented Brazil from advancing out of this group. That botched non-call was much more consequential than this botched call.

    So, rest-of-the-world, stop the whining. There is no fix or conspiracy, there is only an incompetent ref and human error.

    Especially no Argentinian should dare to complain, after the Hand of God goal, and the Peru bribery.
     
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  8. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Nobody is saying Croatia deserved to win. The probability was always going to be that Brazil would find a way to score. But you don't know that. I don't know that. The only thing we know is that Croatia did earn a point up to the time the ref decided to gift a goal to Brazil. What Croatia deserved was a chance to see if they could close out the game on their own without the extra challenge of playing against the referee. That's the facts. Everything else is speculation, imagination and general bull shit
     
  9. Plxix

    Plxix BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 13, 2006


    Look at the penalty.
     
  10. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nobody? I've read several people in various boards who insist Croatia deserved to win. Well, they didn't. But yes, it was unfortunate for them that the ref made a mistake. It happens. It wasn't the first and it won't be the last.

    As for your "speculation, imagination, and general bull shit" - please notice that I based my analysis on facts: the number of shots on target, possession figures, inability to score. These are *facts* of the game, not imagination. I'm not saying what would have happened. I'm talking about what did happen or failed to happen. Croatia got dominated in possession, shot rarely, and couldn't score. Period, full stop.
     
  11. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    LOL ... last I checked shots on goal and possession don't win games. Only goals do. Both teams had 1 goal at time of PK. Referee gifts Brazil a 2nd goal.

    That's the only stats that matter. Anyone that tries to win this argument with shots on goal and possession must not know much about football. Teams lose stats all the time and still win or draw. Goals are the only thing that matters in football ... which is why it's particularly egregious when a referee gifts an unearned goal to a team
     
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  12. Quophi Aletse

    Quophi Aletse Member

    Dec 8, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  13. Chris Ko

    Chris Ko New Member

    Jun 14, 2014
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    As is seen in many of these posts it is obvious that the feeling is wide spread. So FIFA better wake up. Or are they so secure in their monopoly that they could care less. Anyway, for this viewer the cup is over. If this is an example of the garbage we can expect from the world cup then I am gone and gone for good. The first game was a disgrace and then the second and then the third and luckily the Australian game was relatively OK but still weak in quality and refereeing. SO what can we do?
    Well there is only a couple of options:
    1, STOP watching and stop buying any sponsors gear. The only way to hurt the FIFA thugs is to kick them where it hurts. In the hip pocket.
    2. Write as many articles about our displeasure from a;; over the world. The Beautiful game has turned seriously ugly and i suspect quite corrupted. They could not afford to have Brazil lose the first game and how fair is that to Croatia?
    3. No referee from third world countries ie Asia, Africa, middle East or anywhere else that does not have refs that work in the major footballing centres. They are just not up to the pressure. Basta.
    4. Either FIFA starts using video replay for all sorts of infractions or I never watch major games again. I mean it. This is just disgusting. A third ref needs to be in a video booth and has the final say.
    5. For games in the major leagues, world and european cups etc there are 2 refs on the field and the sideline refs have to agree with the 2 before a penalty is given. The coaches have red flags like in the NFL and can challenge calls lets say 4 per half.
    6,
    If all the refs agree then any player that deliberately flops is yellow carded and red carded for a second offence. Enough already of this bad acting.
    7. Any player deemed to be faking injury is yellow carded and if he repeats the offense then he is out. If you compare other men sports like Rugby Union or Australian Football, where real men get seriously hit mopre often than in any soccer game you do not see this unmanly vcry baby BHS It is a really bad example to kids and totally pathetic. So the Beautiful Game needs to be changed and really soon.
    Do it FIFA or lose a lot of viewers. The NBA basketball is a great entertainment and makes soccer look downright stupi and boring. You have been warned FIFA. Get a grip.
     
  14. Nicola777

    Nicola777 Member

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    #140 Nicola777, Jun 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
    stats say everything and nothing in same time;
    brazil put pressure on croatia when the score was 0-1!
    but in the second half when the referee gift a penalty to brazil, brazilians were not putting much pressure on croatian squad at all...they weren't even close to score any goal and there were only 20 minutes left.
    it was only at 0-1 that brazil had opportunities, not much at 1-1 in the first half and not at all after the beginning of second half.
    brazil gave everything to come back at 1-1 just as croatia was putting pressure on brazil when they were down, 1-2
    but at 1-1 from the start of the second half to the penalty given, brazil was not that dangerous. Modric Rakitic were controling the midfield in second half.
    it's only at 0-1 in the second part of the first half that croatians had hard time facing brazilian attacks.
     
  15. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Two other matches have occurred and both were well referred. Most times professional refs at this level will get it right playing armchair ref is nice but human error does occur get over it. I have cited many WC matches with much higher significance then the opener which decided games but you know what the sport moves on. I never said Brazil "deserved" the win I'm saying the opposite!! That Croatia didn't "deserve" a draw like everybody else claims they should have had. That Brazil earned their 3 points and yes Croatia got the wrong end of the stick but in totality Brazil in poor form was still the better team.

    Btw I have no respect for Athletico nor will I have ever have respect for that team, successful season but they were just a flash In a pan.
     
  16. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Hey, you join *today* to say that the NBA is great and soccer is boring? Go back to your NBA, then. Me, I find the NBA profoundly boring and full of thugs and divers and corrupt refs (there's been big public scandals about it, you can't hide these facts). You make some good points, but coming to a soccer board to put soccer down is nothing more than trolling.
     
  17. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #143 Hexa, Jun 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2014
    that is borderline racism, I would delete that if I were you
     
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  18. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    You do have good points, but the game must be judged in its entirety. Croatia had good moments but Brazil also did. Yes, the penalty was a disgrace and I regret it; I wish you guys will beat Mexico and Cameroon and advance, to redress the unfairness. It won't be pretty if a worthy team like Croatia gets bumped out by a blatant refereeing mistake. But I just don't think that all things considered you deserved to win the game (maybe tie, but not win). Just look at this: your goalie is pretty awful. He could have stopped all three goals. He didn't. People often forget that goalies are also part of a team. People see the front 10 doing well and the goalie screwing up, and they think the team deserved to win because they were just unlucky that the goalie screwed up. No, the goalie is part of the 11 and a team often can't win and doesn't deserve to win if a goalie is bad. Also, you're talking about Brazil not creating opportunities for a while in the first half of the second half, but you forget that Croatia NEVER scored. Brazil did manage to score although one of the goals was unfair. I find it difficult to credit a team with deserving a win when their goalie sucks and their offense can't score. Was it fair? No. But did you deserve to win? No. Sorry but that's the truth, and I'm talking from a standpoint of a lot of sympathy for Croatia. Of course you're at no obligation to peruse my posting history but from the moment I joined this board (a short while ago; I'm new here - although not new to football at all) I said that out of the teams I am supporting in addition to the ones I'm really passionate about (which are in my signature) Croatia was one of them, given that I always felt they are worthy footballers from a small nation that has produced some great teams, and I have no fewer than 5 very close personal friends who are Croatians (my son has just visited Croatia a couple of weeks ago and loved it, and was very well treated there). Still, I'm sorry, Croatia got robbed, but this doesn't mean that all things considered, you guys deserved to win. You didn't deserve to lose in this unfair fashion, but you didn't deserve to win either.
     
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  19. Nicola777

    Nicola777 Member

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    I never said Croatia deserved to win it, and i even don't think so, but Brazil before the chance didn't deserve it either whatever the stats said as their domination came at 0-1 and not at 0-0 or 1-1.
    Brazil got a better team than Croatia without doubt and even more without our best striker but in the second half at 1-1 Neymar had not much left in the tank and Brazil had more and more problems in the midfield against us.
    The fact is that the penalty didn't follow an intense domination it was given when Croatians were looking quite good on the pitch at the 70' and none of us can guess what would have happened if the referees decisions had been normal.
     
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  20. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Again all this talk of deserving is nonsense. Matches are not deserved ... they're won by having one more goal than the other team. In this case it was the referee that created that goal. Case closed
     
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  21. magisterlucius

    Nov 10, 2003
    Roseburg, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was really enjoying this match up. Brazil might generally start tournaments slowly but they are Brazil. They are more than capable of playing better soccer than we saw in the opener. I was really surprised by Croatia, that midfield is murder. If they had a little better GK and maybe a youthful Davor Suker (they are getting Mandzukic back) I think we would be talking about them being outside favorites to win this thing. It is true that play acting and poor refereeing spoiled this match and left me feeling robbed of what should and could have been a classic match. I don't know what the result would have been but I do know what it is and that is all that matters on one level. One another level is matters how a team wins and as a neutral this result was ugly.
     
  22. verde-rubro

    verde-rubro Member+

    C.S.Maritimo + Liverpool FC
    Portugal
    Jan 15, 2005
    LONDON
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
  23. Daytripper

    Daytripper New Member

    Jun 14, 2014
    Club:
    Vitoria Salvador
    Indeed the penalty didn't happen.Fred is such a smart guy and the ref gave a gift to Brazil.
     
  24. RMSocrates

    RMSocrates Member+

    Apr 5, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    How the hell did people forget 98 with Davor ********ing Suker and Prosnieki (sp). That team was fun as hell to watch until Lillian Thuram scored his 2 goals at international level ever against Croatia. Funny how that works.
     
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