and ronaldo was on the 1994 final 23 for brasil, so no doubts about him.. freddy isn't even in the equation with ronaldo... and i suspect freddy will have a tough time being a top 25 player... but he'll be top 100, and be better than donovan... freddy will test himself in europe, and find his level, while landon will never get tested sufficiently to find his level... freddy is the smart kid who goes to MIT, while donovan is the smart kid who goes to ITT instead...
Did Ronaldo get serious playing time on that '94 team? If memory serves correctly he got Brian Ching type time. No big deal Fred didn't make the team as Arena was definately was not feeling him. Only a handful of players could be said be 'in the equation' with Ronaldo, someone who dominated senior league play from word go. Nothing to do with Freddy's ceiling really.
You lost me right here. Gargan definately has 'above-average' pace, it's pretty much every other skill that's been crap (though he did do better @ Red Bulls).
Maybe, but as Landon will leave the USMNT as its career leader in goals and assists, by a wide margin with each, that's not an easy target. Not so hard to build a better club career than Landon, from a prestige standpoint, but it will be difficult to outdo him internationally.
ronaldo sat on the bench to soak up the atmosphere and get a ring... as to adu, i suspect his play in europe will define his career, and with donovan we'll have NO real measuring stick there..
in the grand scheme of things... it doesn't... would u rather have a guy who is competing on the highest stage against most of the greats in the world weekly to someone who shows up every 4 years and is playing some of the world's greats and some of the world's dregs... international soccer is overrated, imo... at least in respect to the last 14 years...
Sadly, you are wrong about this. Many career reputations have been made or broken by World Cup performances. Does anyone remember Pele's career at Santos? Who had heard of Frank Ribbery before last summer? Diego Maradonna? Hand of god. 'nuff said.
Not trying to be a smartaleck here - but if you believe this why are you on this board? To the majority of people I know (ie: not complete soccer nuts), International play is ALL that matters.
If you watch the highlights of the U20 team vs. Argentina, there's one shot at the beginning of the clip where he's at the center circle with Altidore. The difference in stature made me laugh at first, but then marvel at the moster that Jozy is already! If Freddy's playing in midfield, I'm not as worried about his size...
If so, only because Santos made a few international appearances. Same with his tenure at Cosmos. Just think of what Pele might have become had he ever gone to Europe instead of squandering his talent in Brazil and the NASL.
read the end of my message... I said last 14 years... when people think of Ronaldo, they think of him running wild at Barcelona and the knee injuries and his comeback... when people think of Zidane, they think of the goal in the 2002 CL Finals... when people think of Ronaldinho, they think of his goals last season at the Berenbeau and the goal against Villareal earlier this year... I can go on... my point is that the international game is not as important as it once was... u can blame that to the Champions League and satellite dishes/cable tv/internet Im on this board because the USMNT interests me... but I am on Yanks Abroad and the Arsenal board much more than I am here... I usually on respond or siced about national teams around world cup time... And I agree with the 2nd point... but to most of the world who are football (soccer) fanatics... Club affiliations mean much more or garner more attention...
Nope -- they think of his bizarre 1998 final experience and then his entertaining up-and-down World Cup career. Yeah ... go to YouTube, type in "zidane" and tell me what you see. It's easy for us to forget how the casual fan sees things, or even the fan who (believe it or not) follows only one or two domestic leagues. Those who watch everything GolTV and FSC can serve up are a minority within a minority. I think the domestic game might be gaining, and if we ever see a European super league, that may be the equivalent of an NFL or NBA. But even then, the World Cup will dwarf all.
never once said the WC wasn't important... what I said is that international football has lost its importance...put it like this... people are going crazy over Kaka and Fake Ronaldo this season, even tho those two were mediocre the last world cup... the WC is forgotten... it doesnt make careers anymore... and this has to do with the best talent coming to play in Europe, Champs LEague, and globalization of the media... y do u see guys pulling out of tournaments now (like kaka and Ronaldinho) and lastly I think u are looking at things from an American perspective and not a world perspective... international football is not as important as it once was
well, donovan has had one pretty good world cup and one pretty bad one, so the net affect is minimal... in terms of evaluation we need to consider the quality of play, if it's all mls, then we have to regard that...throw in donovan going 18 matches without a goal... it's like the female program where some have 200 caps, and incredible numbers... donovan might play twice the number of international matches freddy might... looking at sheer aggregates can be misleading... when looking at big stars at the world cup, if they take you deep into the elimination phase, give them extra credit.... in any world cup cycle....for an america, 6 semis matches...10 hex matches...3 group matches (+whatever....say usa gets out of group play) the 16 concacaf matches against maybe half dozen quality sides...the finals, 4.. so basically 10 matches... if adu is playing champions league and for a quality side in a good league, he could play 20 quality matches per year....and 80 over a wc cycle... it's the old arguement of guys who do it in the regular season versus guys who step up in the playoffs... landon stepping up.....well, we'll see in 2010 if he can...
I personally don't think this is true - in my experience it's not. When people think of Zidane they think of the masterful performances vs. Brazil.
here's the second half of U20 USA vs Argentina. http://media.putfile.com/U20-USA-vs-Argentina-Second-Half
I really do appreciate your round view on this topic but still feel a need to comment. I think being a offensive/defensive AM is over rated particulary here in the US. You can be a great AM and a average/below average defender. I think the defensive focus with DC united was less to round out his game and more to find him playing time. He was not going to beat out Gomez so in order to play he had to have some defensive development to see play time. Look at the top 11 for MLS last year 3 of the 4 M (Mapp, Gomez, Dempsey) are not known for their defensive skills yet that never seems to be a topic of conversation. Why take a creative, quick, great first touch, special passing player and focus on what he isn't? At 5'6 150-160 Adu isn't going to scare anyone on defense, its' just reality but he does not need too be be a top 50 player, it's an urban myth. Funny story, I was watching a youth end of season tournament yesterday. A quality forward was playing and when the other team would get possession the parents were yelling, get back, get back catch him, catch him. The coach was yelling push up, push up, find your space, I just laughed.
Fair commentary, I was just talking about the common theme about Adu's defense. Mapp and Gomez are good examples of guys who make a little effort but don't work back super hard. Your point about needing to be really good to be a primary offensive player is a good one. I was making the point with the perspective that anyone who would choose to have Adu on their side would be doing so for his offensive skills (whatever they are). It's funny the better the team the less this would seem to be a issue. Funny thing, Adu could work like the madman Ben Olsen and I don't think it would make a bit of diffrence with RSL, the defense needs alot more than a hard working M. Edit: Where did John's post go? And to address the DC united thing, that was out the only way for him to get playtime out of position.
On average, if you take a person and identify their strengths and weaknesses, that person is far more likely to have a more significant impact on their organization (such as a soccer team) by working to improve their strengths and not their weaknesses. The idea is that specialization allows the unit to become more than the sum of its individual parts. If (still a big "if: in my mind) Freddy is going to become a great American soccer player, his path there is not via working on his defense.