After watching the penalty again, that was COMPLETELY his fault. It was a completely unnecessary challenge. He comes running over from the right, practically running into Howard who was going to easily make the save, and runs into Senli. Thanks for giving the goal back. Bruce please don't play him again.
Relax...Don't do it. Sorry I just couldn't resist. Not to be an I told you so but how many people have said, including me, that Frankie and Danny are PK's waiting to happen in int'l competition. That's not to say they're terrible players but there's an element of impetuousness or lack of control in the box that is frequently rides on the edge of disaster. I don't get that feeling from most of our other defenders.
Since you actually WATCHED the game....what did you think of the other side of the defense? Berhalter and Vanney? Berhalter scares me. I want Bocangera and Pope and I'm praying the Gibbs comes out looking good. Plus...let's hope Cherundolo will get the nod vs Brazil. We need some one to be able to counter-attack and relieve some pressure and Cherundolo can do that
Berhalter, Califf and Hedjuk all strike me as guys who need someone rock solid next to them to balance them out and settle them down. When you put all three on the field together you just get the vibe that things are going to come flying apart at the seems. Serviceable, but scary if not in moderation.
Re: Re: Frankie [r] It's hard to say. I don't think that anyone really had a bad game individually, just that together, they kept getting burned. The big thing I see is the lack of skill in the back four. Once in the first half we tried to kick it back to the back line to regroup and ended up losing the ball under pressure which led to a good opportunity for Turkey. Another time towards the end, Vanney had taken the ball forward on a good run, and tried to cut back with the ball - as if he had the skill to do so. He's got a great left foot, and should've crossed it, but instead tried to do something that he can't. Berhalter had some pretty solid tackles, but just that group as a whole constantly let Turkey through. I'd like to see Boca and Gibbs in there and see how they do, but I wonder how much of an upgrade they really are. Do they really have that much more skill and are they going to communicate better?
Amen. Califf has gotten better, but he still has that element. Bocanegra and Pope are as cool as it comes.
Didn't see any of today's game, but it reminds me of Hejduk in WC qualifying in Central America (vs. Honduras?) when his rash challenge in the penalty area should have drawn a penalty (and the Jamaican ref later penalized Berhalter for the non-existent hand ball). Frankie flies around out of control, and that's dangerous in the penalty area.
They were definiltly torched multilple tims today. Turkey deserved the win primarily based on our shoddy defense, While we madew some excellent last miute saves, there is no doubt in my mind that Bocanegra and maybe Gibbs and dolo will be upgrades. Overall, a poor performance.
Frankie is a mixed bag, but why do want to play a 28-29 year old who is sometimes reckless, and will not be getting better.....when you can play a 22 or 24 year old that is just as good (maybe with different qualities....no one outruns Frankie, but we have plenty of backs who are more skillful, better in air)....and importantly- that 22 or 24 year old that can get MUCH BETTER- and learn from this playing experience....Frankie can't...he is on the back end of his bell curve... But Bruce loves to hold onto the old(er) guys...
It was Calif's fault. He was the one who bumped the forward in the back. I don't know who they gave the yellow card to but Calif was the one who commited the foul.
The yellow went to Donovan, presumably for dissent. Neither of the players involved was carded for the challenge.
Actually upon second viewing, it looks to me like Berhalter screwed up on Turkey's second goal. He simply let a guy run past him in the box. Some other observations: Donovan wasn't actually as invisible as some have made him out be. It was more like quiet, quiet, brilliant. quiet, quiet, brilliant. That shot that was cleared off the line from Clint originated with a wonderful half field bomb from Landon onto Clint's foot in the box. Convey played a pretty tough defensive game, but since we were either lobbing balls over the middle or having Frankie run it up, he was unable to get involved offensively. Our best weapon is the close one-two combo play of Landon, Beas, and Convey, and when Stewart and Armas contributed it was even better. Speaking of Armas, I didn't see anything from him today that suggests he is a better option than Pablo. In fact, his defensive game was somewhat invisible. Vanney's lobs from the back were pretty useless. Frankie is an offensive liability, and I don't think that can be repeated enough. Final Judgements: Vanney, Hedjuk and Berhalter are emergency only players. Mastroeni is just in better form than Armas.
You wanna jump on Hejduk for the PK, but don't have a damn thing to say about Berhalter standing there like a statue while a guy in a red shirt runs past him into the box????????? Ridiculous. Hejduk may have made an aggressive mistake, but Berhalter made a stupid, lazy, ballwatching one that you'd bench a U-12 for.
I was all over Berhalter AND Califf in the PBP thread (live during game), while everyone else was saying "golazo". That was no golazo, unless running through unmarked into the box is a golazo. Keep your pants on Bill. Can't criticize everyone in one thread. The only thing really ridiculous is you thinking you know everything.
That was me that said "golazo," and I hereby retract that comment. The finish was class, and it blinded me to our defensive suckitude leading up to it. I've never liked Califf at all, and this game did nothing to change that. I just see no future for him. Why wasn't Barrett called in? Berhalter is an enigma. He can be great (Italy) and woeful (Today). And to keep this on-topic, Hejduk: I don't now why Bruce even bothers with this guy in non-WC games. He was quality in France and Korea, but every other time I've seen him, he's been bad. At least he used to have cool hair. He doesn't even have that anymore. I trust Bruce, so, that these guys are playing worries me. He must not see anybody better out there. Scary.
Typical BS users, attributing the comment of one to many Seriously though, I wasn't calling you out. I would like to add my agreement to it having been a great finish.
I thought the fact that the Turkish player controlled the ball at the top of the box with his arm, and the referee didn't see it had alot to do with that play, he doesn't do that, he doesn't get the space to cause the penalty. In the end it was an bad challenge, and one in which HOWARD needs to call the defenders off and claim the ball... He may have and they didn't listen, but his reaction didn't seem to indicate that.
Berhalter? The guy is simply a liability against quality teams. Frankie? Come on, just because he defended decently against Portugal and gave the ball away at every chance, he's great? Some of you people need to wake up and smell the coffee---Hejduk, Armas and Berhalter will kill this team long term......
But you didn't then start a "Greggie" thread, did you? In any case, I too question whether it was Hejduk who fouled the guy, like the poster above and pretty much everybody else: For example, here's Chris Bergin at USSoccerUK.com:"...the ball made its way into the penalty area where Califf was called for bringing down a Turkish striker." The Official FIFA match report says:"Tuncay Sanli nipped in between two defenders, brought a tricky high ball down and was sent crashing to the floor by Greg Vanney." To me, it appeared that Vanney was in front of him, Califf was behind him and Hejduk wasn't even in the picture. One writer thinks it was the guy in front, one thinks it was the guy behind. Only YOU seem to feel it was a guy marking SOMEBODY ELSE. Around you, that's good advice, thanks. I make one short comment about how Berhalter stunk and all of a sudden I think I "know everything"? On the other hand, you seem to have started a thread about Frankie Hejduk committing a foul he didn't commit, which would seem to indicate that you don't know much.
In terms of on-the-ball skill, no Bocanegra doesn't have much more. In terms of marking and tackling, he's light years ahead of the lot, plus he's easily the most athletically gifted defender we've got. Bocanegra's got a decent long ball with his left foot, and is a terror coming forward on set pieces (can get HIGH up in the air), but that's the limits of his attacking ability. He's a major upgrade over this lot. At times he makes mistakes, but at other times he can not just mark and stop opposing attackers, but thoroughly dominate them. In the first half against San Jose about a month ago, he was just about as dominating as I've ever seen a central defender be. I've never, ever, ever seen Bocanegra have the kind of defensive meltdowns Califf and Berhalter had tonight. My only guess as to why he didn't play tonight was that Bruce knew Bocanegra could play 2 of 3 of the games, wasn't concerned about the 2 being back to back, and felt that Brazil and Cameroon would be the biggest defensive tests for us and we needed him most for those. If he isn't in the XI for Brazil, he's done something to majorly piss Arena off, or he's hurt and the word hasn't gotten out yet.
Frankie and Califf are not international caliber players, pure and simple. Frankie can fill in once in a while and not hurt you, while Danny simply doesn't have the pace to compete at this level. We must have better coming up through the ranks. In a couple of years we'll have Gooch, Gibbs, Gbandi, etc ready to go. Ultimately, we'll be in good shape for '06.
From one angle it looks pretty clear that Califf brought him down, from another it looks pretty clear that Hedjuk did. After watching it again, it was Califf who took one leg out, and Frankie came in and took out the other. Definitely on Califf that foul. Frankie still came in and made a reckless challenge and made sure that Senli would go down. You should watch again. Vanney isn't even in the picture. But your ALL CAPS make it seem like you're pretty sure. Do you know what our players look like?
Let me help you: The words you're looking for are: "Oooops, I was wrong; it wasn't Hejduk after all, and I'm sorry I started this thread" See how easy it is? You can slag on me all you want, doesn't bother me even a little. But freind, you were just wrong, and trying to recover by climbing on me won't change that. And you're not very good at it anyway. Goodbye.