FourFourTwo: The 100 Best Players in the World

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Big Soccer Member, Nov 5, 2008.

  1. Sweetness

    Sweetness Member

    Aug 27, 2007
    The exclusion of Mutu from the list is bizarre. He has easily been one of the best players in Serie A over the past two seasons.
  2. phil80

    phil80 Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    His form significantly dropped especially in epl. It is hard to understand how he is rated above players like Ribery and Iniesta, who not only had better seasons but are arguably better players.
  3. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    Correct. He had a purple patch at the start of last season but his form has been erratic. Flamini was, by far, Arsenal's best midfielder last season. The season beforehand it was Gilberto Silva. Now people can point to his assists but he takes all of Arsenal's set-pieces which help to boost that figure. Unfortunately until Arsenal fix their midfield I cannot see him being at his best. He already looks jaded and it is only early November.
  4. phil80

    phil80 Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Yeah, he sure hasn't been playing like the '12th best player' this season nor the end of last.
  5. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Something I thought might be of interest was last year's list and the Big Soccer world draft top 100.

    Last year's FourFourTwo list.

    100. Shunsuke Nakamura (Celtic)
    99. Alexandre Pato (AC Milan)
    98. Maicon (Inter Milan)
    97. Jamie Carragher (Liverpool)
    96. Sergio Aguero (Atletico Madrid)
    95. Nery Castillo (Shakhtar Donetsk)
    94. Javier Macherano (Liverpool)
    93. Adrian Mutu (Fiorentina)
    92. Kim Kallstrom (Lyon)
    91. Filippo Inzaghi (AC Milan)
    90. Javier Zanetti (Inter Milan)
    89. Eduardo Da Silva (Arsenal)
    88. Fabio Quagliarelli (Udinese)
    87. Diego Milito (Real Zaragoza)
    86. Gabriel Milito (Barcelona)
    85. Gary Neville (Manchester United)
    84. Juninho Pernambucano (Lyon)
    83. Rafael van der Vaart (Hamburg)
    82. Robin Van Persie (Arsenal)
    81. Samir Nasri (Marseille)
    80. Ricardo Quaresma (Porto)
    79. Carlos Puyol (Barcelona)
    78. Nemanja Vidic (Manchester United)
    77. Maxi Rodriguez (Atletico Madrid)
    76. Philipp Lahm (Bayern Munich)
    75. Gianluca Zambrotta (Barcelona)
    74. Torsten Frings (Werder Bremen)
    73. Pavel Nedved (Juventus)
    72. Fredi Kanoute (Sevilla)
    71. Kolo Toure (Arsenal)
    70. Vicente (Valencia)
    69. Diego Forlan (Atletico Madrid)
    68. Michael Owen (Newcastle United)
    67. William Gallas (Arsenal)
    66. Ze Roberto (Bayern Munich)
    65. Frank Ribery (Bayern Munich)
    64. Andriy Shevchenko (Chelsea)
    63. Patrick Viera (Inter Milan)
    62. Diego (Werder Bremen)
    61. Simao Sabrosa (Atletico Madrid)
    60. Arjen Robben (Chelsea)
    59. Robinho (Real Madrid)
    58. Joe Cole (Chelsea)
    57. Miroslav Klose (Bayern Munich)
    56. Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid)
    55. Luca Toni (Bayern Munich)
    54. Alex (Chelsea)
    53. Hernan Crespo (Inter Milan)
    52. Owen Hargreaves (Manchester United)
    51. Wesley Sneijder (Real Madrid)
    50. Ronaldo (AC Milan)
    49. David Silva (Valencia)
    48. Andres Iniesta (Barcelona)
    47. Dejan Stankovic (Inter Milan)
    46. Clarence Seedorf (AC Milan)
    45. Florent Malouda (Chelsea)
    44. Carlos Tevez (Manchester United)
    43. David Beckham (Los Angeles Galaxy)
    42. Daniele De Rossi (AS Roma)
    41. Michael Ballack (Chelsea)
    40. Lucio (Bayern Munich)
    39. David Suazo (Inter Milan)
    38. Dimitar Berbatov (Tottenham Hotspur)
    37. David Albelda (Valencia)
    36. Alessandro Nesta (AC Milan)
    35. Ricardo Carvalho (Chelsea)
    34. Fernando Torres (Liverpool)
    33. Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal)
    32. Xavi Hernandes (Barcelona)
    31. Juan Roman Riquelme (Villareal)
    30. Iker Casillas (Real Madrid)
    29. Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)
    28. Paolo Maldini (AC Milan)
    27. Ashley Cole (Chelsea)
    26. Gino Gattuso (AC Milan)
    25. Frank Lampard (Chelsea)
    24. Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United)
    23. Deco (Barcelona)
    22. John Terry (Chelsea)
    21. Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Inter Milan)
    20. Michael Essien (Chelsea)
    19. David Villa (David Villa)
    18. Francesco Totti (Roma)
    17. Paul Scholes (Manchester United)
    16. Roberto Ayala (Real Zaragoza)
    15. Ruud van Nistelrooy (Real Madrid)
    14. Andrea Pirlo (AC Milan)
    13. Didier Drogba (Chelsea)
    12. Daniel Alves (Sevilla)
    11. Petr Cech (Chelsea)
    10. Fabio Cannavaro (Real Madrid)
    9. Gianluigi Buffon (Juventus)
    8. Wayne Rooney (Manchester United)
    7. Samuel Eto'o (Barcelona)
    6. Steven Gerrard (Liverpool)
    5. Lionel Messi (Barcelona)
    4. Thierry Henry (Barcelona)
    3. Ronaldinho (Barcelona)
    2. Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United)
    1. Kaka (AC Milan)

    BigSoccer draft this year (credit to Peru FC)

    001. MF/FW Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal & Manchester United)
    002. MF Steven Gerrard (England & Liverpool)
    003. MF/FW Francesco Totti (Italy & AS Roma)
    004. MF/FW Kaká (Brazil & AC Milan)
    005. FW Fernando Torres (Spain & Liverpool)
    006. MF/FW Lionel Messi (Argentina & Barcelona)
    007. DF Rio Ferdinand (England & Manchester United)
    008. MF Andrea Pirlo (Italy & AC Milan)
    009. MF Juan Román Riquelme (Argentina & Boca Juniors)
    010. MF Daniele De Rossi (Italy & AS Roma)
    011. MF Cesc Fábregas (Spain & Arsenal)
    012. MF Franck Ribéry (France & Bayern Münich)
    013. MF/FW Robinho (Brazil & Real Madrid)
    014. MF Michael Essien (Ghana & Chelsea)
    015. FW Fernando Cavenaghi (Argentina & Girondins Bordeaux)
    016. FW Didier Drogba (Ivory Coast & Chelsea)
    017. MF Andrés Iniesta (Spain & Barcelona)
    018. FW Sergio Agüero (Argentina & Atlético Madrid)
    019. FW Thierry Henry (France & Barcelona)
    020. MF Javier Mascherano (Argentina & Liverpool)
    021. FW Ruud van Nistelrooy (Holland & Real Madrid)
    022. MF Yaya Touré (Ivory Coast & Barcelona)
    023. MF Frank Lampard (England & Chelsea)
    024. FW Adrian Mutu (Romania & Fiorentina)
    025. FW Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Sweden & Inter Milan)
    026. MF Joe Cole (England & Chelsea)
    027. FW Luca Toni (Italy & Bayern Münich)
    028. DF Cristian Chivu (Romania & Inter Milan)
    029. FW Samuel Eto'o (Cameroon & Barcelona)
    030. MF Esteban Cambiasso (Argentina & Inter Milan)
    031. GK Íker Casillas (Spain & Real Madrid)
    032. FW Wayne Rooney (England & Manchester United)
    033. GK Gianluigi Buffon (Italy & Juventus)
    034. MF Gennaro Gattuso (Italy & AC Milan)
    035. DF Alessandro Nesta (Italy & AC Milan)
    036. MF Claude Makelele (France & Chelsea)
    037. MF David Silva (Spain & Valencia)
    038. MF Xavi (Spain & Barcelona)
    039. FW Dimitar Berbatov (Bulgaria & Tottenham Hotspur)
    040. DF Philipp Lahm (Germany & Bayern Münich)
    041. DF Ricardo Carvalho (Portugal & Chelsea)
    042. DF Sergio Ramos (Spain & Real Madrid)
    043. MF Luis González (Argentina & FC Porto)
    044. DF Nemanja Vidic (Serbia & Manchester United)
    045. DF Dani Álves (Brazil & Sevilla)
    046. DF William Gallas (France & Arsenal)
    047. FW David Villa (Spain & Valencia)
    048. FW Karim Benzema (France & Olympique Lyon)
    049. MF Paul Scholes (England & Manchester United)
    050. FW Miroslav Klose (Germany & Bayern Münich)
    051. FW David Trezeguet (France & Juventus)
    052. DF/MF Javier Zanetti (Argentina & Inter Milan)
    053. FW Alessandro Del Piero (Italy & Juventus)
    054. DF John Terry (England & Chelsea)
    055. FW Robbie Keane (Ireland & Tottenham Hotspur)
    056. FW Luis Fabiano (Brazil & Sevilla)
    057. MF Diego (Brazil & Werder Bremen)
    058. DF Iván Córdoba (Colombia & Inter Milan)
    059. MF Dejan Stankovic (Serbia & Inter Milan)
    060. FW Carlos Tévez (Argentina & Manchester United)
    061. FW Emmanuel Adebayor (Togo & Arsenal)
    062. DF Kolo Touré (Ivory Coast & Arsenal)
    063. FW Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (Holland & Ajax)
    064. DF Carles Puyol (Spain & Barcelona)
    065. MF Samir Nasri (France & Olympique Marseille)
    066. MF Patrick Vieira (France & Inter Milan)
    067. MF Rafael van der Vaart (Holland & Hamburg)
    068. DF/MF Martín Demichelis (Argentina & Bayern Münich)
    069. DF Rafael Márquez (Mexico & Barcelona)
    070. DF Gianluca Zambrotta (Italy & Barcelona)
    071. MF Aliaksandr Hleb (Belarus & Arsenal)
    072. MF Mauro Camoranesi (Italy & Juventus)
    073. MF Álex (de Souza) (Brazil & Fenerbahçe)
    074. MF Ricardo Quaresma (Portugal & FC Porto)
    075. MF Michael Carrick (England & Manchester United)
    076. FW Raúl (Spain & Real Madrid)
    077. DF Juan (Brazil & AS Roma)
    078. MF/FW Ronaldinho (Brazil & Barcelona)
    079. DF Lúcio (Brazil & Bayern Münich)
    080. MF Jéremy Toulalan (France & Olympique Lyon)
    081. DF/MF Maicon (Brazil & Inter Milan)
    082. MF Nani (Portugal & Manchester United)
    083. DF Bakari Sagna (France & Arsenal)
    084. MF Juninho Pernambucano (Brazil & Olympique Lyon)
    085. MF/FW Ryan Giggs (Wales & Manchester United)
    086. DF Giorgio Chiellini (Italy & Juventus)
    087. DF Eric Abidal (France & Barcelona)
    088. DF Álex (Días) (Brazil & Chelsea)
    089. DF Patrice Evra (France & Manchester United)
    090. MF/FW Fabio Quagliarella (Italy & Udinese)
    091. MF Clarence Seedorf (Holland & AC Milan)
    092. MF/FW Andrei Arshavin (Russia & Zenit Saint Petersburg)
    093. MF Mathieu Flamini (France & Arsenal)
    094. DF Luis Amaranto Perea (Colombia & Atlético Madrid)
    095. DF Gabriel Milito (Argentina & Barcelona)
    096. DF Massimo Oddo (Italy & AC Milan)
    097. DF Philippe Mexes (France & AS Roma)
    098. MF/FW Robin van Persie (Holland & Arsenal)
    099. FW Mario Gómez (Germany & Stuttgart)
    100. MF Michael Ballack (Germany & Chelsea)
  6. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Shevechenko at 64 in that list is an absolute joke !!!
  7. Scolari

    Scolari New Member

    Nov 3, 2008
    How could Sheva even be considered for that list?

    In regards to the BS Draft list...Gerrard that high up? I'd have to disagree. Especially when he's been considered better than Messi and so many other players.
  8. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    There is little point comparing the initial list to that of the draft. They are completely different in terms of approach.
  9. Horizon

    Horizon New Member

    Nov 20, 2000
    New York City
    Maybe 442 should rename the list The 100 Best Players playing in Europe. Not including Riquelme is a joke. What we have learned over the years with the world club championships and copa intercontinental, etc. is that the top South American clubs are just as good as the top european ones.
  10. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    Please don't use those tournaments as your basis of comparison.
  11. schafer

    schafer Member+

    Mar 12, 2004
    Why do you use this argument (with regards to penalties as well) against players? If they are the best on their team at a particular set piece and are effective enough in that area to make a difference at the highest level they should be credited with it. Goals scored off of set pieces are just as valuable as those from open play so there's no reason to devalue them or a player's ability to take them effectively. So many times when watching professionals I bemoan the number of times a corner hits the first man or a freekick is overplayed into touch yet you seem to refer to goals created off of set pieces as less impressive than others.
  12. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    So taking a few set-pieces excuse the other 89 minutes of average performance?
  13. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Exactly, I chose Gerrard not thinking he was the second best player, just because I considered he was the best option to build my team around him then. The order of the draft is interesting but not to compare so tightly.
  14. schafer

    schafer Member+

    Mar 12, 2004
    No. And that's not really what I'm arguing. All I'm saying is that you use this argument against players as if a goal created from a set piece shouldn't really be credited as much one from open play, which is completely arbitrary. Especially considering that players can just as easily have a poor game and then provide one moment of quality from open play which turns a match as well. The idea of a player 'boosting' his statistics through set pieces as something to hold against that player is absurd.
  15. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    It's not absurd at all. Why should you give one player credit over another when their situations are completely different? Fabregas is supposed to be in the side for his passing and creativity. Should you rate him higher than a similar player at a different club purely because Fabregas is in the fortunate position of being the primary set-piece taker? The fact remains that if you take set-pieces it enables you to boost your stats in direct comparison to someone who does not. Being able to take a set-piece has nothing to do with overall performance. Is it a factor to consider? Of course but it is far from the most important and that is precisely my point. Particularly since so many people simply look at the goal or assist number and make assumptions based on it.
  16. schafer

    schafer Member+

    Mar 12, 2004
    C'mon. Based on that criteria all player comparisons become impossible.

    How is it 'fortunate' if a player has practiced a skill enough so that he gets to take set pieces? If he's better at set pieces than another player and he adds another weapon to his arsenal then yes, he should be given credit.

    Right. Just like being an excellent crosser enables you to boost your stats. Or being an incredible passer. Or a deadly finisher. Why are you selecting set pieces for different treatment when, just like every other facet of a player's game, it's something that they have (or haven't) worked hard on and brought it to a level where it can be useful in a game?

    What assumptions? The assumption that an assist from a corner is just as valuable as an assist from open play? This differentiation you're trying to make serves no purpose.

    Not to mention that unless Fabregas got on the end of his own corner, that last gasp header against Sunderland several weeks ago means that he does not, in fact, take all the corners.
  17. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Tell me the difference. I select my draft picks on the players that will make the greatest positive contribution to my team.

    If a player is worth taking as second overall pick then he ought to be pretty special, if you intend to build your team around him.

    I'm not saying the two are exactly the same, but they are very similar in their frame of reference.
  18. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    Simply listing the best players and drafting players in order to construct a viable team are fundamentally different, notably the further down the list you go as people have different needs, different strategies and different perspectives. You know this full well.
  19. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    Teso is right, in this instance. People might very well select or order a selection of players for the purpose of the draft (which is a game of sorts?). This does not mean that they would select the same order of players when choosing an ordered list of best players. In choosing a Fantasy Football team - I might select David James because in the context of the methods of scoring pts in this game this could prove to be a wise choice. However this would not mean I regard James as the best player in the world (or even in his position) over a specified period of time.
  20. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    But there are no points in the world draft, there is no aim other than to build the best team. It is essentially a race to choose the best players.

    Of course, if there are 16 teams in the draft, then there are only going to be a maximum of 16 goalkeepers in the whole thing, but by and large the first 100 picks are going to be broadly the people think are the 100 best players.
  21. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    I not usually quoted other opinions to support my own, but to answer that I'm completely agree with Teso:

    Just as example, I chose first to pick a player for each line: 1º Gerrard, 2º Eto'o, 3º Buffon... but I didn't think each one as the best overall, just only filling each line in order with the best player to each position, so the order wasn't only individual because maybe I thought one as the best available but I didn't pick him because I already have a player for that position or had similar abilities.

    In a ranking you only have to rate players whatever are their positions, you don't balance with accuracy a number of players by position, and while was advancing the game the profile to each player were done more specific.

    I think the list of the draft is an interesting reference but not if anyone try to compare the positions with a overall ranking so tightly.
  22. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    Not at all. You simply need to take the various factors into account when undertaking a comparison.

    Not when discussing specific factors during a comparison of two players. It makes no sense to, when discussing assists between respect players, not take into account whether a player takes set-pieces or not.

    You are talking about events which take place during ordinary play. Freekicks and corners are entirely different are therefore have little to do with what a player does during the rest of the game.

    Don't play dumb. The assumption is that an assist equates to a good performance, notably when the assist comes from taking a set-piece. It is different and when comparing players it is an important distinction to make. The fact that you are now picking out individual incidents to try to disprove my post says it all. No player takes everything. Everyone knows that but, generally speaking, Fabregas takes Arsenal's set-pieces the majority of the time. Van Persie, whenever he is actually fit, will generally take direct freekicks (i.e. going for goal) while Fabregas will generally take indirect freekicks (i.e. passing).
  23. schafer

    schafer Member+

    Mar 12, 2004
    Yeah, but when you use the set piece argument you use it against a player (as in, he got x number of assists but he takes set pieces) and I don't think that makes any sense. It shouldn't be used to deride a player if he's an effective set piece taker. If a player sets up 15 goals and his 'rival' sets up 12, the matter in which they are created is irrelevant. That doesn't mean the first player is necessarily better but it does mean that he's created more goals.

    But if you isolate any incident then it can be shown to have little to do with what a player does for the rest of the game. It's easier to pick out set pieces because they are already isolated incidents, but in reality it's just as easy for a player to have a poor game and provide a telling assist from open play as it is to do the same from a corner. Case and point, Fabregas was poor against you but still got credit for the assist to Nasri's second goal. At the end of the day your separation of set pieces for different treatment is still completely arbitrary.

    Most sensible watchers will know that all an assist indicates is that a player was involved in a goal and that it doesn't speak at all to the rest of his performance.

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