Forum for discussion of issues by posters who can't start a thread in the Customer Service Forum

Discussion in 'Customer Service' started by Oarboar, Mar 9, 2011.

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  1. Dignan23

    Dignan23 Member+

    Jul 6, 2001
    Fort Vancouver, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    There is the perception that some minority groups are more protected from racism than others are on this board. Some of us see the censor list as one piece of evidence that that perception is valid.

    That's what it has to do with the price of beans.

    My position is "to hell with the autocensor," but if you're gonna have one, then at least have it protect all groups of people equally. You're now willing to do just that, although you still seem to not know why you should do so (c.f. your "pile of beans" comment above.)


    ********** and injun are two words that you could add to the autocensor that would make a step towards equality. Raghead and hymie are two more.
     
  2. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Kraut


    EDIT: Yup...it doesn't protect all groups.
     
  3. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    New York City FC
    I feel like I've said this many times and it just isn't getting across - the censor isn't about how we feel about which people are more important than others and which deserve to be protected, it's a practical tool for reigning in some of the things that have occurred on our boards with some frequency. But it's also not something that we've put tons of thought into, spent any time maintaining, or meant to represent the BigSoccer view on what's important to be censored, so it's strange to be hoisted by our own censor petard.


    J a p is on the censor but nip isn't, mainly because it was being used occasionally and because there are countries that don't share the U.S.'s history so that folks were using it as an abbreviation. Of course, nip, like chink, would make little sense to censor, but a word like J a p isn't used for much of anything anyway.

    Likewise, wetbac k is on the censor because as you can see, people use it as a slur on these boards and there is no debate that it's offensive and there really is no other use for it.

    The reason I hesitate to add a term like s quaw is because a) it's not something we have an issue with and b) it's a term which while offensive to many seems to have some debate over the history of the term and it's place in history. To me, that seems to fall into an area where we might not want to censor the term because folks can debate it. But not adding it to the censor isn't the equivalent of somehow naming the Women's Soccer forums - S quaw Soccer - which would be offensive and a direct affront to those that find the term offensive.

    So, while I reject the notion that the censor represents anything about BigSoccer's views on which minority groups are more important, since it's clear I won't win this debate, I'll add all the terms you suggest and welcome other additions.

    But this has nothing to do with what's on the censor - trust me, I've red carded folks for using the term ra ghead/towelhead regardless of whether it's on the censor or not.
     
  4. deleted

    deleted Member

    Aug 18, 2006
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Blatter


    edit : yup, I can see it
     
  5. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand that Sr. Calor will get out of jail in a few weeks after serving a one month ban. And I see that a few more words have been added to the autocensor at long last.

    So what action has been taken against a certain supermod for stalking and abusing his power? Lemme guess... nothing.
     
  6. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    New York City FC
    When did anyone stalk and abuse their power? As I've said repeatedly - he got off really easy the first time by the person you feel the need to assume the worst about. He decided to do it again and can now have nothing to complain about.

    If this really is the kind of headache we have to deal with over someone who uses slurs then please tell your buddy I may need to rethink what we discussed. It's just not worth it to be made into the bad guys over things like this.
     
  7. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Dude, must you ruin the 606s fun? :D
     
  8. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When a supermod hands out an infraction to a user over a post that to the best of my knowledge was not reported and that was posted in a place where that supermod is not an active participant, that tells me that that supermod is stalking that user.

    First, I'm speaking for myself in all of this. The implication that I'm not is a little insulting.

    Second, I'm not looking to make anyone into bad guys. I just want some acknowledgment that one of your peers was out of line in how he behaved. Mike earned what he got and I'm not asking you to rescind it or anything like that. But I'm getting the impression that when you get above the level of Moderator, accountability drops precipitously.
     
  9. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    Come on dude, there is a difference between "stalking" and "reading posts".
     
  10. TallTowerMan

    TallTowerMan Member+

    Apr 8, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Club Tijuana
    Nat'l Team:
    China PR
    Geez....I promised myself that I would be done with this thread but it has gotten to the point that I can't leave DK here alone to deal with the ridiculousness.

    Post are reported any number of ways. Via the report system, via PM, via VM, or via rep remark. It is dealt with one way or another.
     
  11. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm curious:

    ************, homo, poofter, queer, fudgepacker, ******, ********************
     
  12. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Are those the names that represent your group? :eek: :p
     
  13. Estevo

    Estevo Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    The I to the E!
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I'm pretty sure it was reported.

    By the way, this is not a place for mods to discuss these issues. Take it to the secret chambers please.

    kthnxbai.
     
  14. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well then, I suppose that you can find it here:

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=1201

    Oh, so an instance of a super moderator's targeting an ordinary user is not germane to the Customer Service forum? And users who have been here for most of BigSoccer's history but don't happen to be moderators should have nothing to contribute?

    Bullshit.
     
  15. Estevo

    Estevo Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    The I to the E!
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
  16. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    How was he targeting him? He asked him not to repeat the slur again, it was deliberately repeated, he took action. It's a little strange to argue that TTM shouldn't have seen the slur in the first place. I doubt that Mr Warmth would even go down that route.
     
  17. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Oh, boy! This thread is getting good again!

    Kike
    Hebe
    ********** <-- That's new! What the hell!

    Hy'mie should not be censored. (Nothing should be censored, but that's another issue.) Hy'mie is actually a Jewish first name, and a very common Jewish nickname. It's derived from Chaim, hence Hyman and Haymi and Hy'mie and so on. (I have family members with that name and nickname.) Remove it from the censorship list. It does not belong there.

    Really, when are you people going to realize that the auto-censor is not going to be fixed by adding crap to it? It'll be fixed by dumping it.
     
  18. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    New York City FC
    I tried explaining umpteen times that it's one tool to slow down the use of words that are seen commonly - but that didn't appease the claims that BigSoccer cares more about certain minorities than others, so I agreed to add words that folks request.

    If we got rid of the censor, we mods would spend more time than we want editing and/or infracting folks for using various words such as those on the censor. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing really that wrong with it - but it's not meant to be a tool to stop racism from happening.
     
  19. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    When's the stoning??? I need time to get my packet of gravel.:cool:

    Someone say Jehovah?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI"]YouTube - stoned for saying jehovah (life of brian)[/ame]
     
  20. TallTowerMan

    TallTowerMan Member+

    Apr 8, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Club Tijuana
    Nat'l Team:
    China PR
    Yup, you are correct Umar.

    Estevo is right also. It was reported to me both times. The reporter has even posted in this thread. Oh well......
     
  21. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I did. The post that got him rung up was not there. Do you think that I would not ask the question if I didn't already have the answer?

    My question is this:

    How did the supermod in question know that the slur was repeated unless he was deliberately stalking Mr. Warmth?

    After all, he hasn't posted to the thread where the offending post was made, he's posted to that particular forum a grand total of three times in the last three years. Perhaps he just lurks in Free For All, but with over 12,000 posts in the last four years, it stretches credulity to suggest that he's an active poster in other forums but not FFA.

    Or maybe he's silently watching over all forums, waiting to pounce on all sorts of racist, sexist, homophobic, and other sorts of bigoted language where it occurs, in which case I would suggest that he's missed a few spots on BigSoccer, especially when it does not involve slurs against Mexicans. And I'd then ask why we even have moderators when the supermods are exercising this much oversight.

    But none of these explanations are as plausible as the notion that Mr. Warmth was a burr under TallTowerMan's saddle, and that TTM was going to get Mr. Warmth one way or another. Mr. Warmth broke the rules and deserved punishment, but I don't think that it's right for supermods to giving such personal attention to users with whom they have beef.
     
  22. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Beyond the indication that it was reported, you've never followed along a conversation or a poster? I've done that a few times to make sure said poster was taking my position seriously. From all appearances, this is what happened - not the stalking bit you are claiming.
     
  23. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    The word in question was not commonly seen on BigSoccer. I am requesting that the word be removed from the autocensor list. I already noted the reasons why the inclusion of the word on the autocensor list is needless and misguided.

    I know what you think the autocensor does. The question is whether it actually does what you think it does. You can guess my answer.
    If the banning of a few choice words does not stop racism (and, frankly, it doesn't really slow it either), then there's no point to having the autocensor. You are supposed to be banning and infracting actual racist speech -- or do you plan to infract me for discussing Joseph Conrad's "N'gger of the Narcissus"?
     
  24. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    The only person on that 606 thread who would have reported Mr W for his response would have been the original agent-provocateur himself. Anyone else, then I don't believe you.
     
  25. Estevo

    Estevo Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    The I to the E!
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    You're wrong.

    I reported it.
     

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