Formula 1 - The 2011 season

Discussion in 'Automotive' started by benztown, Jan 31, 2011.

  1. malby

    malby Member+

    Liverpool FC
    Republic of Ireland
    May 11, 2004
    Rep of Ireland
    Club:
    Drogheda United
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Yes, by far the best F1 race in donkeys years!!
     
  2. Pathogen

    Pathogen Member

    Jul 19, 2004
    Like you care.
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And of course I missed it. Stupid DVR wasn't set to record it on Fox.
     
  3. malby

    malby Member+

    Liverpool FC
    Republic of Ireland
    May 11, 2004
    Rep of Ireland
    Club:
    Drogheda United
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Well it ran for about 5 hours so even if you had set it, it prob would have missed the exciting parts!! :D
     
  4. Pedro's greasy do

    Nov 7, 2008
    London
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    This is the best F1 season I can remember for a long long time. Yesterday was the peak of it. What a race! I'd love to see Button win a few more races to make it interesting.
     
  5. Pedro's greasy do

    Nov 7, 2008
    London
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    You've got to admire his attacking instinct though. He's by far the most naturally talented racer in F1 and he's getting frustrated by a car that is not up to scratch. He's a winner and I admire him for that.
     
  6. AA Balon banned

    AA Balon banned Red Card

    May 26, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    :confused:

    I won't argue that he might be the best, but "by far"? Alonso should be somewhere near him, no?

    And calling the Mclaren "not up to scratch" is a weak statement, considering they have the fastest car.
     
  7. Pedro's greasy do

    Nov 7, 2008
    London
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Maybe by far is a bit of a stretch. Alonso is near him. they are very similar as well. Both out and out winners. Hence the reason they do not get on.

    They might have the best engine but the set up is not as good as red bull. That is why they are struggling a bit. Saying that the Red Bulls really struggled out of the corners yesterday. When you factor that in and how good Button is in the wet...
     
  8. HardHatMike

    HardHatMike DOOOOOOOOM!

    Traktor Nebraska
    Aug 31, 2005
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's "attacking instinct" and there's recklessness. The last couple of races have been recklessness and he's taken out competitors and finally himself with that recklessness.
     
  9. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Unfortunately, I couldn't watch the race either. Since I did opt to follow LeMans last weekend, I couldn't justify yet another car race before my girlfriend...;):eek:

    Without having seen it, Hamilton really does appear to do his best to piss people off lately. I think it could have to do with his new management. He is after all looking for a massive contract after 2012. He has always been full of himself, but then again, that's not necessarily a bad thing, most drivers are. But I could imagine that the talk about him being the best really got to his head recently, and now that he's looking for a multi-milllion contract and everything going on around him, he completely lost his grounding.
    Apparently he had a "secret" 15 minute long talk with Christian Horner (Red Bull Team Manager) in private Saturday night. Whether he's really pursuing that alley or whether he's just using that as leverage against McLaren is unclear of course. But it certainly hasn't helped his perception of the world around him.

    The quote of the day certainly came from David Coulthard. When he heard that Lewis claimed to have been half way alongside Jenson before his crash, Coulthard said:
    “If that’s halfway I’m not sure I want to share my chocolate bar with him”
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Prawn Sandwich

    Oct 1, 2003
    Bhutan
    Not sure how you can describe yesterday's crash as reckless when his team mate was the one who crashed into him halfway through a legitimate overtaking opportunity?

    He's been a pratt recently but to blame him for yesterday is simply wrong IMO
     
  11. Pedro's greasy do

    Nov 7, 2008
    London
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    I would not say the move on Button was reckless. Button actually apologised to him as he could not see him. Would you want to take away his attacking instinct? He will learn. I think he is just frustrated at the moment because his car is not competitive.
     
  12. HardHatMike

    HardHatMike DOOOOOOOOM!

    Traktor Nebraska
    Aug 31, 2005
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I absolutely would not want to take that away from a driver, but when taken in context of similar instances 3 races in a row (and you have no idea how mad I still am over him taking out Maldonado and Williams' best run of the season at Monaco), you have to look at it as a trend now rather than an isolated incident.
     
  13. Pedro's greasy do

    Nov 7, 2008
    London
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Agreed. He has to handle his frustration better at the moment.
     
  14. RitztotheRubble

    RitztotheRubble Member+

    Apr 15, 2011
    i think the last race which was that exciting was spa in 2008, although if i remember correctly that one ended with penalties which spoiled it all.
     
  15. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    To say that Hamilton's McLaren is not competitive while Button's car came back all the way from last to first (with a lot of SC by the way) makes no sense... Lewis is frustrated but the car is not the reason; he has lost his focus and is behaving worst like a rookie that has something to prove and not like a former World Champion that has to content for the title.

    If this race showed us something is that Vettel is human too and that luck and neutralizations also play a role in the sport. If there hasn't been like 50 SC laps Vettel would have lapped everyone; on the other hand, you have to give it to Button for not giving up and for achieving the impossible less than a lap from the finish line... Great driving..

    Hey Lewis.. Instead of driving like a lunatic and talking like an arse, take a look at Jenson and learn how a World Champ drives..
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Regarding pure talent, I will put Alonso and Vettel ahead of Hamilton...

    For starters, Vettel and Alonso make their cars look way better than they are and usually outqualify and outpace their teammates, sometimes by a lot..

    Hamilton is fast but not significantly faster than Button and furthermore he is not making his car look impresive or way ahead of what it really is, like Vettel and Alonso do... If he was such a great driver he would find ways to adjust his machine's performance where it lacks..

    That is without taking in account his horrible judgement and his qualifying woes, not to mention his apparently slow learning curve...
     
  17. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    You make a good point. There is the saying that real talent makes something difficult look easy.

    Although I still think that Hamilton does have a lot of raw talent. But you're right that his learning curve isn't that impressive. He still makes the same mistakes he did years ago.
    When you look at Vettel, he also makes mistakes, but he only makes them once.

    When you look at opinions on fan forums or comment sections on F1 sites, Vettel is still underrated IMHO. People always say that Hamilton's much better, if only he had the right car. Well, I disagree. As I said, I really rate Hamilton's talent, but Vettel is the complete package, in and outside the car. I think he has that from Michael Schumacher who was (and still is) his idol and who was famous for his commitment and his hard work with the team on the car. It's no accident that these drivers end up with cars that suit them perfectly. Vettel, like Schumacher, is one of the last people to leave the pits after practice or after the race, because he's analyzing the data with his team.

    Not to mention that Vettel is still only 23 years old (though he'll be 24 soon). He is the youngest driver to ever compete at a F1 Grand Prix at the 2007 US Grand Prix at 19 years and 54 days, he's the youngest driver to ever lead a race at the 2007 Japanese Grand Prix, he is the youngest ever driver to secure a pole position at the 2008 Italian Grand Prix (in a Toro Rosso!!!) and went on to become the youngest driver to ever win a Grand Prix and the youngest driver on the podium in the very same race (which also makes him the first and only driver to win a race, secure pole position, and reach the podium in Toro Rosso's history). In his first season at Red Bull in 2009, Vettel became the youngest ever Championship runner-up and in 2010 he became the youngest ever World Champion. Sure he was lucky to arrive at Red Bull just in time when the team took off, but he also obviously had the right stuff to get there.
     
  18. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Excellent points Benztown....

    I was about to comment how Lewis is still young and has time to adjust and learn and it surprised me to see how many great young drivers are already in F1. Yes, Hamilton is talented and his aggresiveness is part of his appeal; but with so many great prospects already dipping their feet in the big pool, raw talent can only go so far. Learning, working with your team, making the best of what you got, that's why I like Vettel so much...

    In every sport, the all-time greats get there not only with their innate skills but with work ethic and the desire to be the best they can be. .
     
  19. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    What are your toughts on the new rules regarding the Engine Mapping and Blown Diffusers?

    IMHO, despite having a very exciting season F1 is fearing that their ratings will go down if RBR and Vettel continue to dominate... Can't blame them, at this pace the Championship could be defined before they leave Europe...

    In that sense it is a logical decision and they're targetting the perceived advantages that RBR has over their rivals: Engine mapping allows Vettel not only to dominate Q1 and Q2 but almost to entirely skip Q3 and the Blown diffusers make the RBR-7 chasis the most sound aerodynamically making up for their power disadvantage vs Mclaren, Ferrari and possibly Mercedes..

    At the same time I feel that: 1. It is not exactly fair to tinker with the rules in the middle of the season; and 2: Newey is probably the most clever design engineer in today's F1 field; he will find a way around and RBR will continue to be as competitive while his counterparts will continue to struggle to find a winning combination in their designs.

    Opinions?
     
  20. HardHatMike

    HardHatMike DOOOOOOOOM!

    Traktor Nebraska
    Aug 31, 2005
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Saw these in a Vepsa forum that I frequent and though some here might get a kick out of them.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  21. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    First of all, I think this is once again a way to help Ferrari. We all know that FIA likes to do that and Ferrari seems to have the biggest problems (besides Cosworth of course) with regards to the engine mapping.

    However, I think that Red Bull probably won't lose more than the others. I've heard from somebody with inside knowledge that Red Bull doesn't actually blow their diffuser as much as the others do. They might lose their edge in qualifying, but they might even profit during the race.
    However, while they don't blow as much hot exhaust gasses underneath their diffuser, maybe it still could have more severe consequences. Red Bull is obviously running a very high rake. It could be (but I don't know that) that the high rake only works with the blown diffuser. If that's the case (big if) then Red Bull might actually be the team that has the most to lose. But I wouldn't count on it.

    As for the rule change, I can totally see the technical reasoning behind it (preventing the engine from being an active aerodynamic device) and I don't have strong views either way. But I'm generally against changing the rules mid season.
    Next year there will be strict rules regarding the exhausts, preventing them to blow the diffuser. I don't have a strong opinion about it. I'm generally in favor of reducing the importance of aerodynamics though, so I guess having standardized exhausts is a step into the right direction...
     
  22. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Mercedes brought a new prototype to Valencia, they now sport the Red Bull exhaust as well as the big exit for the hot air. Gone are the gills. I suspect that this is a reaction to the new motor management rules. Apparently Mercedes' setup would have suffered the most.

    [​IMG]

    Click for full size image
     
  23. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    There was a boring race in Valencia last weekend, but more importantly, the FIA has finally (?) decided upon the new engine regulation.

    Here's the deal:
    The V8 era is coming to an end, not in 2013, but only in 2014. However, the I4 Turbo won't come either, instead we'll see a V6 Turbo. Apparently, the I4 Turbo was first decided upon in order lure Audi into joining F1. Adrian Newey said that Audi promised to join F1 if I4 Turbos would be used. But when FIA then complied, Audi jumped the ship and the F1 teams were suck with an engine that nobody except Renault really wanted.

    Here are the details:
    As stated, the new engines will have a V6 layout and are equipped with one turbocharger. They will have a displacement of 1.6l and direct injection with no more than 500 bar.

    Additionally, in order give F1 a "green" appearance, the amount of gas that can be injected is limited and the KERS system will have 120kW.

    The FIA also said in an FAQ that 5 manufacturers have already started to develop I4 engines and will have to start over again. This is in so far interesting as we currently only have 4 manufacturers, one of which (Cosworth) has said that they could not afford to develop an I4 engine. So we might see two new manufacturers by 2014...I wonder who that could be...Peugeot? Honda?

    As for Audi, I think they should have joined F1 either way. Sticking to sports car prototypes is a mistake IMHO for several reasons. First of all, Audi has accomplished everything there is, winning 10 of the last 12 Le Mans races (although it's more like 11, since the Bentley victory of 2003 was for all intends and purposes an Audi). Secondly, Audi has its racing roots in open wheel racing. Wouldn't it be a great marketing tool to invoke the likes of Rosemeyer or Nuvolari, racing in the Auto Union Type-C/D? Then F1 still has more cachet than sports car racing and finally, Porsche has just announced its return to LeMans for 2014 which means that VW will have two competing LeMans teams by then which doesn't make much sense financially.
     
  24. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

    Feb 4, 2004
    Hanover
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Wouldn't it make more sense for VW to send their own team into F1? Especially now that they are pulling out of Dakar...
     
  25. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    I'm not a marketing expert, but I think that sports/luxury marques benefit more from being in F1, so if VW the company would choose to enter F1, VW the brand might not be the best choice to do so.

    Being a mass market manufacturer, I think their focus should be on race cars that are similar to their production cars. Of course, VW didn't compete at Dakar with a stock car, but with a prototype. Then again, it was basically a big commercial for the Touareg, so there was some sort of connection there.

    I think the best series for VW would be the World Rally Championship, but then again, that's already occupied by Skoda...Then there is the World Touring Car Championship, but there's Seat already...that's what you get for having so many brands...
     

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