Formula 1 - The 2011 season

Discussion in 'Automotive' started by benztown, Jan 31, 2011.

  1. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    With the tire sets limited at six (Am I right?) it would not surprise me to see some top middle or middle table teams skip Q3 altogether. Having and extra set of tires and being able to set your own pit schedule makes a lot of difference as we saw with Heidfield and also Webber in a previous race.

    How long will the super soft last? The soft compound was good for 10 to 14 laps depending on the car and treatment... Would the s.soft last as long in a circuit with little grip, lot of elevation changes and different asphalts make it to double digits?
     
  2. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    And a couple of new developments:

    Ferrari has apparently copied Red Bulls gaping exit for the air that has been used for cooling:
    [​IMG]

    Mercedes on the other hand have copied the extra opening on top of the airbox that McLaren and Lotus-Renault have pioneered, also in order to improve cooling:
    [​IMG]

    At the same time, Mercedes is cutting ever more gill-slits into the side of the car:
    [​IMG]
    I really like the aesthetics of these gills as they remind me of great racing cars of the past, but I can't help thinking that this is a stop-gap measure and not very helpful to the performance of the car...
     
  3. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    It's really amazing what difference the tyres can make. Heidfeld obviously had all fresh tyres after not being able to compete in qualifying.

    Schumacher did in fact skip Q3, albeit not entirely voluntarily. He did however waste one set of softs in Q2 if I'm not mistaken. I do wonder though why he didn't start on hard tyres. At the end, it probably wouldn't have made much of a difference given the way this race played out, but then again, he might have been able to finish further up had he been able to defend his position for a couple of laps on the hard tyres...

    In Monaco, I expect qualifying to be slightly more important though...we'll see. But FIA should definitely consider one (or two) additional sets of tyres for qualifying.

    After the first practice sessions, the drivers were very surprised at how well the super softs held up. Also, despite what you mentioned, AFAIK Monaco doesn't put as much pressure on the tyres as other tracks do, given it's lack of high speed corners, or high speed anything for that matter, so I don't expect more stops than in Spain, but rather less...

    But at this point it's of course very hard to tell how it will all play out. It will definitely be very interesting to see the differences between the soft and super soft compounds.
    In the first couple of races, everyone preferred the soft tyre over the hard one. The teams always tried to use the soft compound as much as possible and then switch on hard tyres for the rest of the race.
    With the new combination in Monaco, we might see different strategies. Some teams could prefer the softs, others the super softs. That would certainly spice things up.
     
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  4. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Also, we should take a moment to appreciate the classic that the Monaco GP is.

    I find it fascinating that for more than 80 years there have been Grand Prix cars racing through the streets of Monaco.

    Here's footage from the very first Monte Carlo Grand Prix in 1929. If you know the track, you'll see how little has changed since then.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAXhktcW7b4"]YouTube - ‪1929 Monaco Grand Prix‬‏[/ame]




    Next, one clip from the Golden Era of Grand Prix Racing (1934-1939 when the first "modern" grand prix cars hit the circuits without many limitations from the rule books). This one is from 1936.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX-f3HFjbAI"]YouTube - ‪F1Review GP Monaco 1936‬‏[/ame]




    Another great era were of course the 1960s. Here we have Graham Hill's first victory in Monaco in 1963. Four more victories should follow. Only Senna went one better to win 6.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUjiOQJSDwQ"]YouTube - ‪MONACO 1963‬‏[/ame]




    And finally, another great Monaco driver, Michael Schumacher in his tremendous 1996 qualification run. Schumacher, like Graham Hill has 5 Monaco victories. Here, he beat Graham's son Daemon despite being in a far inferior car (Hill was in a Williams designed by Adrian Newey...you know, the guy who also designed Sebastian Vettel's Red Bull...)
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9o1zeSzO5c"]YouTube - ‪Michael Schumacher versus Damon Hill Monaco Qualify 1996‬‏[/ame]
     
  5. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    And here you can see how little the circuit has changed over the years.

    This is the track of the first race in 1929:
    [​IMG]

    This was in 1973:
    [​IMG]

    And this is the current circuit:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Here are the results of the Monaco GP:
    Code:
    [B]PROVISIONAL RACE RESULTS
    
    The Monaco Grand Prix
    Monte Carlo, Monaco, Monaco;
    78 laps; 260.520km;
    Weather: Sunny.
    
    Classified:
    
    Pos  Driver        Team                       Time[/B]
     1.  Vettel        Red Bull-Renault           2h09:38.373
     2.  Alonso        Ferrari                    +     1.138
     3.  Button        McLaren-Mercedes           +     2.378
     4.  Webber        Red Bull-Renault           +    23.100
     5.  Kobayashi     Sauber-Ferrari             +    26.900
     6.  Hamilton      McLaren-Mercedes           +    27.200
     7.  Sutil         Force India-Mercedes       +     1 lap
     8.  Heidfeld      Renault                    +     1 lap
     9.  Barrichello   Williams-Cosworth          +     1 lap
    10.  Buemi         Toro Rosso-Ferrari         +     1 lap
    11.  Rosberg       Mercedes                   +     1 lap
    12.  Di Resta      Force India-Mercedes       +    2 laps
    13.  Trulli        Lotus-Renault              +    2 laps
    14.  Kovalainen    Lotus-Renault              +    2 laps
    15.  D'Ambrosio    Virgin-Cosworth            +    2 laps
    16.  Liuzzi        HRT-Cosworth               +    3 laps
    17.  Karthikeyan   HRT-Cosworth               +    3 laps
    18.  Maldonado     Williams-Cosworth          +    5 laps
    
    [B]Fastest lap:[/B] Webber, 1:16.234
    
    [B]Not classified/retirements:[/B]
    
    [B]Driver        Team                         On lap[/B]
    Petrov        Renault                      68
    Alguersuari   Toro Rosso-Ferrari           68
    Massa         Ferrari                      33
    Schumacher    Mercedes                     33
    Glock         Virgin-Cosworth              31
    Perez         Sauber-Ferrari               DNS
    
    
    [B]World Championship standings, round 6:                
    
    Drivers:                    Constructors:             [/B]
     1.  Vettel       143        1.  Red Bull-Renault          222
     2.  Hamilton      85        2.  McLaren-Mercedes          161
     3.  Webber        79        3.  Ferrari                    93
     4.  Button        76        4.  Renault                    50
     5.  Alonso        69        5.  Mercedes                   40
     6.  Heidfeld      29        6.  Sauber-Ferrari             21
     7.  Rosberg       26        7.  Force India-Mercedes       10
     8.  Massa         24        8.  Toro Rosso-Ferrari          7
     9.  Petrov        21        9.  Williams-Cosworth           2
    10.  Kobayashi     19       
    11.  Schumacher    14       
    12.  Sutil          8       
    13.  Buemi          7       
    14.  Perez          2       
    15.  Barrichello    2       
    16.  Di Resta       2 
    
    However, I will not update my team ranking for two reasons:

    1) As a Mercedes fan, it would be too depressing

    2) Monaco is a very special Grand Prix and I don't think that we can draw too many conclusions from it.



    I will however post my thoughts on the race:

    1) It was certainly the most eventful race so far this year, with lots of crashes, two safety car interruptions (the first ones this year) a red flag, two hospitalized drivers and a lot of different strategies which got even more confusing because of the first safety car.

    2) Interestingly, the first safety car might very well have secured the victory for Vettel when at first it looked as if it ruined his race. But I need to go back to the beginning to explain that. Like most drivers, Vettel started on super soft tyres and he pulled away nicely early on, creating a decent cushion for himself ahead of Button Alonso and Webber.
    Button was the first to switch tyres, he went on super softs again and then posted a couple of quick lap times. Vettel had to react and pitted 2 (?) laps later, but his pit crew had a bad day and he lost some crucial seconds, plus Button had already made up a lot of time, meaning that he lost his position to Button. Vettel however went for the harder "soft" compound, which would prove to be the winning move.
    Button then had to pit again soon, being on the "super soft" compound and again went for super softs. He fell back to second place again, now being more than 10 seconds behind Vettel.
    At this point it seemed pretty clear that Button was on a three stop strategy while Vettel planned to stop twice, which means that Button would have to close the gap to Vettel and then come in for his final pit stop where he would put on the soft compound. And I think Button would have had a good chance of winning in that scenario.
    But then the safety car came on the track, immediately nullifying Vettel's lead. It was way too early for Vettel to pit and put on the super softs again and if he had put on the softs, he'd have practically handed the victory to Button who could have pulled away far enough for him to stop again. So Vettel stayed out and it appeared as if his race was ruined.
    My guess was that Vettel would come in as soon as possible for the super softs and then try to get a couple of decent laps in order to come out ahead once Button comes in for his last stop and then somehow try to get past Alonso who was in between.
    But then Button made a smart move by switching to soft tyres quite early and making up a lot of time afterwards. Vettel then couldn't pit again because he would have thrown away victory (not to mention that Alonso would have been there anyway). So Vettel was forced to finish the race on his ancient tyres. And he did a great job, defending his position against Alonso and Button on much fresher rubber.
    It was almost like last year when one set of tyres lasted for an entire race.

    3) The price for biggest douche of the weekend has to go to Hamilton this time around. I used to love the guy, but he's doing ever more to annoy me (and everybody else). Today he caused two crashes, ending the races of both Massa and Maldonado only to go on and blame everyone but himself, attacking the stewards and then topping it off by trying (and failing) to make a joke about the stewards being racist. And all that after starting off the weekend by telling the press that he was a much better driver than Vettel...I guess it came back to haunt him...

    4) Finally, let me mention how fortunate it was that both Perez and Petrov walked away from their severe crashes with only minor injuries. This could have ended much worse.
     
  7. HardHatMike

    HardHatMike DOOOOOOOOM!

    Traktor Nebraska
    Aug 31, 2005
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a Williams fan, I'm beginning to wonder about the long-term viability of the team with these kinds or results piling up week after week.
     
  8. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Today was actually a pretty good race for Williams considering their recent form. Maldonado would have been 6th if it hadn't been for Hamilton shoving him into the wall just before the end.

    Compared to their past glory that's still bad of course, but it was certainly a step into the right direction.
     
  9. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Here's the Hamilton interview that caused some controversy. Hamilton clearly caused these accidents, yet he calls his rivals "ridiculous" and "stupid" and the stewards "a joke". Instead of feeling singled out, he should rather question himself and wonder if he had done something wrong, or at the very least heed his own advice and shut up...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD8T8_JR4Mw"]YouTube - ‪BBC F1 2011 - 6 MCO - Lewis Hamilton fuming after Monaco 'weekend to forget'‬‏[/ame]

    Oh yeah, and the Ali G joke works, because he's NOT black...Hamilton just comes off as a sore loser making that "joke", or maybe he even believes it, he certainly seems to have a very selective perception judging from this interview...
     
  10. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    And just for reference, here are videos of Hamilton's two crashes.


    Hamilton crashing into Massa where Massa clearly had nowhere to go and then he claims Massa did it on purpose:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNQzUAYPItA"]YouTube - ‪Formula 1 Massa vs Hamilton Monaco GP 2011 [HD]‬‏[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzyHNoWP4uc"]YouTube - ‪Hamilton vs Massa incident Monaco F1 2011 (onboard camera)‬‏[/ame]

    Here Hamilton just rams into Maldonado at the chicane and then raises his hand in anger:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2BjGoS8ORE"]YouTube - ‪F1 Monaco 2011 - Hamilton/Maldonado Crash‬‏[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYiNKYaviZI"]YouTube - ‪Hamilton vs Maldonado incident Monaco F1 2011 (onboard camera)‬‏[/ame]


    Hamilton must be living in a parallel Universe if he honestly thinks that it was the others who were to blame.
     
  11. AA Balon banned

    AA Balon banned Red Card

    May 26, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The first race I was able to watch this season, and it was fantastic!


    Vettel with 5 wins already.. That Red Bull car is sick.
     
  12. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    1. I agree with Benztown: Hamilton was in his own little demolition derby... I mean, I kind of understand how frustrating must be to be behind so many cars that are slower that his and been unable to pass since there are little to none overtaking oportunities at Monaco... But hey.. Is not anyone's fault that you started ninth on the grid with the 2nd best car of the series!!!

    2. The combination Vettel/RBR is fantastic. Seb might not be the best driver (Alonso is) and RBR might not be the fastest (McLaren is) but together they're the best combo. Seb has the right instincts, is an out of the world 1-lap driver (hence his 5 poles in 6 races) and has learned how to defend his position against faster cars without crashing into them. Unless Ferrari or McLaren really improve in the next few races I can see Vettel and RBR claiming the title by early October or before..

    3. I'm not too happy about the rule that allows the tire change during the red flag. If the rules are so, nothing to question, but it would have been nice to see the last few laps with Vettel defending his position while trying to save his tires and Alonso pushing it to the limit to make use of his advantage.

    4. Monaco is a one of kind race.
     
  13. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Let's do a little house keeping, here are the news:

    1) FIA has decided to hold the Bahrain GP on October 30th.

    2) A lot of people in F1 are obviously not very happy about that and there is talk about the teams boycotting the BAhrain GP, but my guess is that when push comes to shove, no team will have the guts to stand up to the FIA.

    3) Another result of this is that the Indian GP which was supposed to take place on October 30th will be moved to December, much to the dismay of many fans especially in India who now have to rearrange their travel plans.

    4) The FIA has also spawned a controversy regarding the timing of next years Austin GP. The return to the US is supposed to take place on June 17th which places it right in the hot Texan summer. Dr. Steve Olvey, chief of the Austin track's medical team has been very critical of that decision, saying that it's dangerous for the drivers involved, but especially for the spectators. The FIA said that it might reconsider and that the decision is not yet final.

    5) Team Lotus won the lawsuit against Group Lotus, meaning that we will continue to have two distinct Lotus teams in F1. Group Lotus has announced to appeal the decision.

    6) The FIA has confirmed that despite protests from everybody, Turbo engines will return by 2013. However, they still have left a loophole. The decision can be changed until June 30th.

    7) On the other hand, FIA took back their decision to bring back the ground effect. Instead the aerodynamic rules shall remain similar to 2011. However, the cars' noses shall become lower again for security reasons and drag shall be reduced in order to reduce fuel consumption.
     
  14. HardHatMike

    HardHatMike DOOOOOOOOM!

    Traktor Nebraska
    Aug 31, 2005
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for all that! :) Any word on whether refueling will be re-introduced?
     
  15. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Nope and I don't expect it anytime soon...especially not with the new rules being so "successful"...which is of course up to debate.

    I still think that the movable rear wing is the worst idea in F1 ever, it's absolutely terrible.
    I like the new tyres, but refueling would also be a nice thing.

    It's also a shame that the FIA has backtracked on the ground effect return. The current cars are dominated by aerodynamics way too much. As a fan of technology and engineering, I want the engine to be the most important part of the car, not the chassis. I want clever suspensions, gearboxes and drivetrains to make a difference, not flaps and winglets...going back to ground effect cars, limiting aerodynamics and opening up engine development would have been the way to go...
     
  16. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Jean Todt has now revealed that while Ferrari, Mercedes and Cosworth want to hold off the move to 4 cylinder turbo engines, Renault has threatened to leave F1 should they not be introduced by 2013.

    That's really interesting. I imagine that Renault has been developing the new engine for some while and thinks it would have an advantage, while right now Ferrari and Mercedes are clearly better, especially once the restrictions on engine mapping take hold, where Renault also has an advantage.

    Cosworth on the other hand said that they are not capable of developing a completely new engine. If they're right, we'll definitely see one engine go, either Renault or Cosworth.
     
  17. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Renault (Williams-Renault & Renault Elf) totally dominate the last turbo charged era on F1 (Mid 1990s I think)?
     
  18. HardHatMike

    HardHatMike DOOOOOOOOM!

    Traktor Nebraska
    Aug 31, 2005
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
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    United States
    Aren't they dominating right now? Doesn't Red Bull use Renault engines? Maybe I'm just ignorant to how those engine supplier agreements work.
     
  19. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I was referring at Renaults prominence and experience with turbo charged engines...

    Currently Renault engines are not the most powerful (Mclaren's are), but the combination Chasis/Engine by RBR is the most solid and competitive regardless of the circuit (Ferrari and McLaren perform better in certain tracks)...

    Lotus Renault is not doing specially well...
     
  20. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    In this day and age, the engine doesn't have the importance it used to have. I think it was Adrian Newey who recently said that 90% of the performance of an F1 car is due to aerodynamics. Hence my rant the other day :eek:
    I think that the engine should be the most important part...

    Regarding the engines today, it's common wisdom right now that the ranking is:
    1) Mercedes
    2) Ferrari
    3) Renault
    4) Cosworth

    The engine can of course be important when it comes to takeovers. Not so much this year thanks to the new tyres and new rules, but that was one important reason why Red Bull did have so many problems last year when they were behind a slower car with a stronger engine. The slower car would pull away on the straight and the Red Bull couldn't come into a position to overtake.

    Renault does still have a trump though regarding their motor-management. You might remember that before the season I talked about the blown defuser. Basically the idea is to blow hot and energetic exhaust gases into the diffuser to increase grip.
    Usually, when a driver enters a corner, he's not on the gas pedal, meaning that less exhaust gases are channeled into the diffuser and grip levels go down. But that's exactly when you need grip the most.
    Red Bull who "invented" the blown diffuser also came up with a solution to that. Together with Renault they changed the motor-management, so that even when the driver does not hit the gas pedal, the engine continues to burn fuel, so that the diffuser is continuously fed with exhaust gasses.

    The whole thing is however not as easy as it appears and you need to construct the engine around that requirement.
    Renault having a head start has the best solution. Ferrari was the first to catch up. Mercedes use a different architecture and did have massive problems last year creating a constant stream of exhaust gasses but they seem to be able to do it this year and Cosworth still can't really do it properly.
    Renault apparently still has an advantage over Ferrari and Mercedes though.

    Anyway, some Cosworth teams (mainly Williams I think) protested against this practice, arguing that the engine is used as an aerodynamical device which is against the rules and the FIA ruled in favor of them. The FIA did however give the teams until Silverstone to come up with new solutions, because as it turns out, Ferrari and mainly Renault would probably have big problems since both their engines were designed, so that they need the off-throttle gas in order to cool the engine.
     
  21. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    It looks as if the Bahrain GP is far from certain once again, with Bernie recently coming out against it, the drivers being skeptical (most notably Mark Webber) and now the teams seem to have found the courage to oppose it as well:
    http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/261622/teams-pushing-for-bahrain-cancellation/

    ‘Teams pushing for Bahrain cancellation’

    7 June 2011

    It is believed Formula 1’s teams have united in attempting to call off the reinstated Bahrain Grand Prix. Through FOTA (Formula One Teams Association), the twelve outfits on this year’s grid have written a letter to governing body the FIA, commercial rights holder Formula One Management (FOM) and the Sakhir circuit.

    With Sakhir’s season-opening slot having been postponed due to civil unrest in capital city Manama, the race was placed back on the 2011 calendar on Friday following a recent visit to the country by FIA Vice President Carlos Gracia. Furthermore, leaked FIA dossiers now suggest Gracia has described Bahrain’s current situation as ‘completely normal’; this is not reflected in local and international news reports, which continue to depict bloodshed and general disruption in the Arab Kingdom.

    “The teams have discussed the 2011 calendar within FOTA,” a FOTA spokesperson was able to tell GPUpdate.net on Tuesday night. “They have expressed their views privately in a letter to the FIA, FOM and Bahrain International Circuit. Further comments at this moment would not be appropriate.”
     
  22. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Apparently, Hamilton got really close to getting banned for a couple of races after the Monaco GP. Only after some private letters to Todt did he evade that:

    http://www.planet-f1.com/news/3213/6972899/Lewis-In-The-Clear-Over-Monaco-Rant
    It's not clear for what exactly he would have gotten that penalty (for his "it's because I'm black" comment or the conduct during the race) and six races sounds very harsh, even to me.

    I think he certainly shouldn't get punished for his bad joke. He embarrassed himself enough as it is.

    He did however get away too easily for his conduct during the race. I think he should have gotten a suspended sentence of a 2-3 race ban with a probation period until the end of the season, meaning that should he ever drive like he did in Monaco again and receive a penalty of any kind, then the ban would automatically kick in.
     
  23. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    And apparently the protests of the drivers, teams and media worked...the 2011 Bahrain GP has been canceled again, this time for good and the Indian GP will get back its October 30th spot.

    Certainly the right decision, but unbelievable how we got there...it shouldn't have been such a fight. The FIA clearly lost what little credibility it still had...
     
  24. HardHatMike

    HardHatMike DOOOOOOOOM!

    Traktor Nebraska
    Aug 31, 2005
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After the stupidity of the last two races and acting like a child instead of taking responsibility for his mistakes, Hamilton's idiocy catches up with him. Couldn't have happened to a nicer douchebag, and even better that it was his teammate rather than someone else.
     
  25. RitztotheRubble

    RitztotheRubble Member+

    Apr 15, 2011

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