How is that different from... any other second division on Earth? Especially in the modern era where big clubs' academies pick up anyone who shows significant talent by age 15? And why would MLS pay large amounts for someone who hasn't ever been tested at MLS level or equivalent? As it is, watching a USL club, I can tell you that one or two of the top players from Sacramento Republic go to MLS every year. Sometimes they stick, usually they don't. When they stay in MLS longer than one season, it's usually as bench players. Maybe you can argue that they don't get enough chances to show their ability when they're in MLS; but USL isn't sending fewer players to MLS than other countries' second divisions send to their first divisions. As has been your habit for quite a while in this forum, you're wildly overestimating the upward mobility of players in other countries. You simply can't compare US second-division players to established international stars at other countries' biggest clubs.
I just saw the post asking about players going from USL to the UEFA Champions League. But again, the thing is: how many second division players from anywhere get to the UEFA Champions League? Take, for example, Schalke 04, which I picked only because they hosted the first Round of 16 match listed in Wikipedia. They lost badly in the Round of 16, by the way, so we're not even talking about one of Europe's top clubs. Of the 18 players in their matchday squad for the first leg, only 6 had ever played for a second-division club in any country, 3 of them only on loan for one season or less. None had ever played for a club in any country's third division or lower. Also, since most of the second-division clubs were in the 2.Bundesliga, which is about on par with MLS, exactly 2 of the 18 players had ever played in a league regarded as weaker than MLS.
Just from the Philadelphia Union. Trusty, Burke, McKenzie, Aaronson, Fontana, and Real who will likely never with the U20s and is a USL regular but not quite ready for regular MLS appearances yet.
Tell that to the pro-rel crowd. The lack of a $ transfer system certainly hinders player development.
Again, what are you talking about? Adams started with RB2, Dwyer with Orlando, USL version. Salloi, Busio, Lindsey etc played for Swope Park before being ready for SKC (admittedly, Busio was crazy young when he made the jump, but he did begin as a USL player). Seattle, RSL, Philly, NYRB, Portland, etc rosters are famously full of people who cut their teeth with their USL teams. Your assertion, again, runs counter to the facts. If you're going to take us on a tangent, please do a bit of research first. Also, please acknowledge that the MLS-USL setup with second teams is pretty new. For a system that didn't exist 10 years ago, it's crazy productive of MLS players right now, and the smart money is that it gets more productive as more clubs figure out how to best use the setup. I get the sense that you're talking about US national team players, but no one else on here is going to do that. Producing nats is not the point of MLS or USL and certainly has nothing to do with MLS league structure when they reach 28 clubs, and then go beyond.
that's all i'm saying though...that those fringe players don't get enough of a real chance....they are filler not given a legit shot for the most part....easily written off but hard to verify their level....
my general point is that fringe players in MLS are underutilized and underdeveloped and not given enough of a shot....they end up as "fringe" players because they are given minutes and vice versa ...a vicious cycle a player like Chris Mueller is one of the best wingers in MLS but isn't starting because Nani (wtf).....no one can convince me he isn't good enough to be a starter in MLS.............he's only started 2 of 6 games this season...it is not enough for such a promising player...thats not good enough....that whole be better if you want minutes argument rings SO HOLLOW a lot of times from where I'm sitting.... most of the young players getting minutes are getting token minutes and spot starts...its just not good enough in terms of how MLS develops talent
Kellyn Acosta, 23, 5 starts, 6 appearances 447 minutes Cole Bassett, 17, 4 starts, 5 appearances 324 minutes Andre Shinyashiki, 21, 1 start, 6 appearances 120 minutes (not U.S. eligible) That's 3 just for a really bad MLS team.
Trusty played every game for the Union last year and has this season as well. Aaronson has been in all but one this season even with Fabian on the field.
Mueller wouldn't ever see your proposed U-23 side, as he's playing regularly with the senior side. The manager talks about his plan for Mueller and Mueller speaks about being on board with the supersub role for now, but the motiviation to prove that he should be starting more often. You may not like the supersub role for him, but it is a role. Mueller is clearly being given a shot. I'm not a huge fan of OConnor but he's noted, "the easy thing to do would be to start Mueller..." He's constantly in the conversation. Your issue is that you disagree with their plan. that is the right of a fan, but Mueller could face the exact same situation on any club, anywhere on Earth. Managers come up with plans and use players in the ways best will help out the team. Also, it's not "because Nani" (one plays best from the right, the other from the left but you can't play Mueller in the 10 spot, as Nani did this weekend). Right now it's more because Dwyer and this last outing it was because Akindele but the real reason is that Orlando is going with a 3 cbs, 2 wingbacks, 2 dms, a 10 and 2 attackers. I would think a 4-3-3 gets him on immediately, but if the determination means that results in 5-3 loses instead of 1-1 ties, the current setup is the right call. Managers are there to get points, it's their call on how they do that.
make a list of the 20 best usmnt prospects under 23 in MLS and tell me how many of them are starters in MLS....my guess is it would be under 25%
How many u23 top 20 prospects for any country are playing in their country's top tier? Also, how many of those countries are of any significance on the world stage? Marco Farfan - 918m the last two seasons, no action this year yet Josh Perez - loaned to PHX *Jeremy Ebobisse - STARTER *Jackson Yueill - 38g/25 starts the last two seasons (over 2000m) 4g this year and just started the last match Eryk Williamson - loaned to P2 Keaton Parks - loaned in this season app in 2 games so far (was in Portugal's 2nd division prior) *Djordje Mihailovic - STARTER and saw 26g/15s the two seasons prior Derrick Jones - 2g this year and 24g/11s previous two seasons (over 1000m) *Miles Robinson - STARTER and also saw 10g/3s last year Donovan Pines - loaned to LU *Cristian Roldan - STARTER and has been for 3 years Chris Durkin - 2g this year had 23g/16s last year (1500m) *Auston Trusty - STARTER and started all last season too *Kellyn Acosta - STARTER and has been for 3yrs *Reggie Cannon - STARTER and was last year too *Paxton Pomykal - STARTER I only got to 16 on my list and see 9 starters so nope, not under 25% Then there's the guys like Adams, Miazga, Yedlin, that were under 23 top USMNT prospect players starting in MLS before moves elsewhere. Or guys like Trapp, Zardes, Zimmerman, Morris, Lima, that are mid-20s (24-27), certainly in the USMNT top prospect pool and have been starting since age 23 or younger. Or a guys like Arriola, Lletget, Steffen who was brought back to the US at 23 or younger and was starting. Or the influx of teens the last few seasons.
I'm sorry,. this is a classic example of the failings of your case: You want to make this point, then make the list, show the work, show their playing time, etc, and then make the argument. Your guesses are meaningless, esp as we've routinely shown them to veer away from the facts. As Hailtotheking just demonstrated, this assumption was incorrect, and shown to be so rather easily. If you want to win converts to your case, you actually have to make a strong case. Tossing out incorrect assertions weakens your argument. Repeatedly doing so reduces your credibility.
So now we’ve gone from “most of the young players” to “the 20 best USMNT prospects”. Funny how you always change the parameters instead of admitting you’re wrong.
@adam tash , you’re done here. I’m tired of your act. This isn’t a forum ONLY for MLS fans, but coming in here exclusively to bitch about everything isn’t going to fly anymore.
Even if a league in between was created, you might have the same complaint. Part of it is if guys go to college and get drafted at age 22. In Europe, it's possible to play for a top club before age 18, and more likely to play for their U-23s/reserves/whatever they call it where you can at least make the 18 for the first team if there are many injuries. Given that not many Americans get rich playing soccer, I don't think it's possible to convince many kids and their parents to attempt to play pro soccer right after high school. The difference in Europe is that there are so many countries and top level leagues. Players take paths like Luka Modric from the best club in the country they're from (Dinamo Zagreb) to a great club (Tottenham) to an elite club (Real Madrid). Another one is Marouane Fellaini from Standard Liege to Everton to Manchester United. Nemanja Vidic went from Red Star Belgrade to Spartak Moscow to Manchester United. I don't know how the gap from MLS to USL compares to the gap from the Premier League to the top leagues in Croatia and Belgium, but in all cases it's a big gap. The fact that a player on a UEFA Champions League club never played outside a top level doesn't mean that he never played in a league much worse than the top leagues.
True, but he was calling the USL a failure specifically because players weren't routinely going from the USL to the UEFA Champions League. That's, uh, insane.
The only second divisions that have any appreciable number of alumni in the UCL are second divisions that are themselves considered on par with or stronger than MLS. And even those second divisions aren't the pipelines Adam claims they are.
Exactly. This isn't baseball where teams play just about every day. MLS does not need to have an even number of teams to avoid off days, and therefore does not need a travel team to fill schedule dates. It certainly does not need an U-23 travel team. That's minor league BS. Stupid idea.
MLS managers are not paid to develop players for the NT. They're paid to win games. That goes for any domestic league in the world. MLS teams are spending hundreds of millions on developing talent, while MLS Works has committed tens of millions to providing opportunities in underserved areas, all of which is showing dividends. Where would Tyler Adams be in his 20th year if he had been born in 1969, 1979 or 1989 instead of 1999? Probably not playing professional soccer. A year ago you were complaining about Jeremy Ebobisse not getting enough games. He's made 5 starts in 6 games this season, fighting off competition from Lucas Melano, 1,110 minutes in total since September 1st.