Foreigners stunting development of mexicans?

Discussion in 'Mexico' started by Rafael Hernandez, Oct 21, 2003.

  1. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    Lavolpe went to the protagonistas and did a good job (the problem is he doesn´t correct them) and said that one of the problems was the foreigners taking up spots that mexicans can´t then and then there is the lack of players in the mexican team. Everyone has agreed in terms of forwards and defenders. I think he has a point and that maybe 5 foreigners are too much. And I think the problem lies in the directivos. To me the perfect example is in America. Last season they had two promsing forwards in Paco Torres and a real good one in Santiago Fernandez. What the hell does the directiva do? Sign two forwards. Sebastian Abreu and Sergio Blanco, who don´t fit well with Beenhaker system and still have to be in the bench. Why do they signed Blanco.

    The other example is Atlas, who used to be all about the one who produced the youth, etc. Now they are playing with 5 foreigners, (Veiga, Palacios, Perrone, Morales and Valenzuela) some of which suck like Valenzuela and shouldn´t be there taking spot of some young guys. Puebla is another case, where they had promising Guillermo Ramirez and now they have Arango blocking him and doing a bad job at that. Pumas had that block, Taborda taking spots and Chiapas has Filomeno, Martell and Cabañas all taking forwards spot and being average at best with Salvador being the better.

    They are not far off and I feel that its a key to the problems in the Tri and for the future.
     
  2. mejulian

    mejulian New Member

    Oct 20, 2003
    Mexico City
    Very well said Rafa, at the beginning I thought you'd place all the blame on the foreigners, but the truth is that those decisions are taken by Mexicans. I support Pumas and I've seen the most incredible signings ever, the latest one is Botero.

    We are caught in an endless circle. We have the same old players switching through all the teams in the league and some crappy foreign players blocking the youngsters.

    Club presidents are so desperate trying to get results that they buy anything. They do not want to work on mid-term projects, let alone a far-term one.

    The most pathetic case I remembers is the balcanic combo hired by Puebla some years ago.

    Cheers,
    Julián
     
  3. aloisius

    aloisius Member

    Jul 5, 2003
    Croatia
    Balcanic, meaning from the balkans? Who was there?
     
  4. mejulian

    mejulian New Member

    Oct 20, 2003
    Mexico City
    I was meaning that buddy, maybe that word does not even exist :(

    Alksandar Janjic
    Dejan Pekovic
    Milec Knezevic
    Vojimir Sindic
    Viktor Trenevski

    None of them showed any qualities. They were bought via video tape and no one in the team could communicate with them. That wouldn't be a problem in Europe, but in Mexico the players are not used to that.

    They stayed in Puebla for a tournament and went home
     
  5. Deleted USer

    Deleted USer Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    The question remains. Why take the job if you didnt think you had the tools to work with?

    I understand that Foreigners do take playing time from youngster, thats in in a lot of leagues. We are not the exception

    I understand we dont have a traditional "10"? How many countries do have one?

    I understand we dont have a Pele or Sanchez or Maradona at the moment, but those are special players that come every so often.

    I understand that Mexican execs do take those types of decisions, but there are those types of decisions in every league. And in some cases where the money is far greater, the politics are also alot more.

    But why take the job? Thats what i ask. Why take it if you didnt think had had the resources to work with. Why call people other people pessimist when all you do is tell the people what you dont have. Why not see what you have to work with and go from there

    THe National Team Coach is not there to produce players. THe National Team Coach is not there to look at every youngster in every division and see thier development.

    The National Team Coach is there to intergrate the best current players a country has to offer with the ones from that will play in the future. HE wants to treat it as a sub 15 team. Lavolpe has failed to realize that he is not coaching "fuerzas basicas" He is coaching the national team.

    FOr all the time he spends moaning and complaining, he needs to start working. He complains. He has failed to realize that he is a head honcho of coaches and that you will have to bump some head here in there with clubs. Carlos Albert was right when he told him that he lacked balls. You cant please everybody. If he wants to see X player from X team, he is the main coach and its within his power to do so. I doubt any team will file a complaint to FIFA.

    Javier Aguirre got a lot of players from Cruz Azul and Trejo wasnt happy but Aguirre's job is more important. Lavolpe used 6 of America's players and it hurt America, but he got no beef from Lapuente. If Lavolpe is scared to have beef with people, maybe he is not the right person for the job.
     
  6. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    where have you been JULIAN, you do KNOW mexican futbol.... I am Impress with that quick answer. How did you find us (via referral or else)?

    welcome here.

    I see that many foreigners as a problem for the development of mexican futbol, look at your liga, is the largest in the continent (other than brazil, largest country) The pool of players to choose from should be realtively large too, 18 teams, but no....just look at team conductors and strickers -most are outsiders......They should limit foreigners to 3 on the field and one on the bench: that will make managers and team presidents more selective with the club's investements.

    I will elaborate more in the cafeteros thread.
     
  7. Deleted USer

    Deleted USer Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    they were there for the 98 Invierno (winter) season. They all left at the end of that season. I believe that season they only acquired something like 6-7 points. The closing season (Verano 1999) they were relegated. All that money they spent went to waste.

    Selling a franchise is nothing new or illegal, but what was shady about the whole thing is that reports showed they lost a lot of money. And they couldnt understand why some of the Puebla investors acquired the Union de Curidores franchise. Then they put UdeC back in Puebla under the new name of Puebla.

    Network deals, sales, and attendance were not all that great for Puebla prior to the new franchise coming in, so a lot of people were suspicious why they brought a team back to Puebla basically under the same management.

    As if once wasnt enough, Puebla hasnt changed all that much since then. They do the bare minimum. The rely on foreign talent. And the results dont show.

    When are those small clubs going to realize that it is not worth spending 2-3 times as much getting foreigners that will produce 2-3 goals per season. Any young Mexican players can get you that. In fact they do give you that considering the limited playing time they recieve and these guys get more playing time and produce a lot less.
     
  8. lond2345

    lond2345 Member

    Aug 19, 2002
    USA
    Originally posted by Rafael Hernandez

    "The other example is Atlas, who used to be all about the one who produced the youth, etc. Now they are playing with 5 foreigners, "

    and before Atlas couldn't win (and Quirarte was sent packing)

    "some of which suck like Valenzuela and shouldn´t be there taking spot of some young guys. "

    Valenzuela is no good? I think you need glasses ;)

    "Puebla is another case, where they had promising Guillermo Ramirez and now they have Arango blocking him and doing a bad job at that"

    We agree Arango is no good.

    "Chiapas has Filomeno, Martell and Cabañas all taking forwards spot and being average at best with Salvador being the better."

    you really need glasses. Martell has been the difference. He does a lot for the team. It took him a few games to get into the rythm of the MFL but since he has achieved the rythm he has put nothing but great effort. Nobody in the team runs more and works harder.
     
  9. mejulian

    mejulian New Member

    Oct 20, 2003
    Mexico City
    Cheers efernandez9, I just typed puebla+yugoslavos+futbol on google and the names appeared.

    I found the site with a search engine. I wanted to talk about Mexican footy but, unfortunately, most of the forums in Mexico end up in rants full of insults. This one seems to be a great place and I'm sure I'll enjoy it here.
     
  10. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    acuerdese de llenar el profile suyo con mas datos, sino todo el mundo le pregunta lo mismo varias veces. Que otros foros visitaba? Los de Univision?
     
  11. Various Styles

    Various Styles Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Originally posted by Rafael Hernandez

    The other example is Atlas, who used to be all about the one who produced the youth, etc. Now they are playing with 5 foreigners.

    I feel both Pumas and Atlas are not the teams they used to be in regards of producing talent. They have come to heavily rely on foreigners and their new prospects are not as good as they once were. On the other hand Cruz Azul has a current good crop of young talent. Im not sure if this is coicidence or they have been working on their reserves. On the downside they are not getting much Playing time as the Cementeros still prefer to have foreigners starting in their team. No i must give it up to my Chivas. They have been working with their fuerzas basicas and have gotten many good players. Amongs them Omar Bravo, Alberto Medina, Rafael Medina and Johnny Garcia. This season Alonso "el Negro" Sandoval and Salcido made their debut and tommorow against Veracruz Hans will debut two more players in Isaac Romo and Parra.. Indeed Chivas is on its way of becoming the MFL's version of Ajax. Hans working with the reserves, another Dutch as scout and yet another that will be the future coach. Looking good..
     
  12. amanzo81

    amanzo81 Member

    Apr 30, 2003
    home
    Club:
    Club América
    Strange

    It may be true that there are too many borderline foreigners taking up spots in the mexican league, bu you have to remember that those big name aquisitions are the ones that bring Mexico some "credibility" in terms of league strenght. I myself dont buy that argument, but you have to agree that having someone like delgado in cruz azul brings them and the league up a notch.
    Also, if you wanted to bring up the argument of stunting mexican devolpment, you could say that Lavolpe is the best example of it. The Federation appointed him into that spot when the could have easily put in a mexican coach to take a shot at it.
    Lastly, being an americanista, i have to defend Leo. if you remember, he was brought in after they had aquired el loco. I doubt if he was ever consulted prior to that happening. Its clear that Abreu dosent fit in his system as evidenced by the fact that he hasnt played more that clean up time in the last few games, even with blanco out.
     
  13. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    Forget about Lavolpe. It has been said a number of times. The point was never about Lavolpe and maybe I shouldn´t have mentioned it. The point is that they are increasingly buying foreigners to fill holes and it stunting the growth of Mexicans in some areas. When you have teams that have certain areas totally covered by foreingers like Atlas with forwards like Morales, Perrone and Valenzuela (and yes I have seen Valenzuela, and yes he has slipped). America buying Abreu and Blanco when they had a promising forward, Fernandez, and giving him less chances. And the list goes on and on.

    The fact of the matter is that very little times teams have 5 good foreigners, all playing key parts like Tigres and UAG. Many times you have teams like Necaxa, with a couple of good foreigners and a guy like Tabares, who you wonder why the hell is he there if he is taking up a spot for a Mexican who can, at worse, suck as much as he does.
     
  14. Machetazo

    Machetazo Member

    Mar 20, 2002
    L.A.
    lol, most of those debuting for chivas are 21 and over, so that isnt too exciting.
    And chivas has to debut them, they have no one else, vergara didnt buy many players. Romo, 20 years old, unfortunately, in Mexican football standards, thats young. I am looking forward to see what Parra does tomorrow. Although i am sure that the chiva u-19 player that the gringo was giving props when he played vs the us youth team here in cali was not him. Yet its nice too see an 18 year old player debut.
     
  15. Levante

    Levante Member+

    Jul 28, 2001
    Welcome here

    Welcome mejulian.....I'm glad you're enjoying it here. This place will have MFL discussion and conversation and it will not be like the UNIVISION forums........I can guarantee you that.



    About the topic.........great thread. There should be a 4 foreigner only 3 play rule. The Mexican National team is suffering because there is a bunch of foreigner garbage in the league.


    No soy anti-extranjero. Al contrario, el extranjero ha ayudado elevar la liga mexicana a otro nivel. Pero, debe de haber un limite rasonable para el extranjero en nuestro futbol.
     
  16. PumaBear

    PumaBear New Member

    May 5, 2001
    back in el defectuoso
    There are three positions that have been occupied more and more by foreigners: Central defenders, creative mids, and strikers. And that, amigos, is the backbone of any team. The real issue here is that most teams prefer to get a quick fix by acquiring "proven", and foreign in most cases, talent in these three areas. Not only do these players block the emergence of Mexican players by occupying the spots, but also, if they don't pan out the team will often play them so they don't lose the return on their investment. In other words, even if they suck they will play them so their value won't go down.

    It's a nightmarish circle. Many promising young Mexicans that start their careers in these positions are switched to other positions... It would be best to reduce the number of foreign spots to at least 3 but that will never happen. It is too much og a business for agents, owners, and coaches..... Sad but true
     
  17. Levante

    Levante Member+

    Jul 28, 2001
    If it doesn't happen, it's quite likely that Mexico will have a very, very, very difficult time of ever even coming close to winning a World Cup.
     
  18. el mofles

    el mofles Member

    May 16, 2001
    RC Mongolian BBQ
    Club:
    Birmingham City LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I think the culprits that are stunting Mexican players development aren't the foreigners so much as the people who train the kids coming up. If their was a good youth system in place a MArquez and Sanchez could easily be produced at constant rate instead of once in a blue moon like they are now regardless of how many foreigners take away Mexican national spots. Right now a lot of the young kids coming up are decent, but nothing special which makes the board think they can do better with talent from outside the borders.
     
  19. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    bumped for ric56 and bopper's discussion/question.
     
  20. Levante

    Levante Member+

    Jul 28, 2001
    Why Efer? The conversation can go on very well in the other thread. Why must you bump up old threads.
     
  21. sidspaceman

    sidspaceman Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 20, 2002
    AMÉRICA DE CALI
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Gotta agree Levante, and I don't see how this thread even answers the question in the other thread.
     
  22. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    This Thread has nothing to do with the other discussion. End to this bumping of old threads in this forum!
     
  23. sidspaceman

    sidspaceman Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 20, 2002
    AMÉRICA DE CALI
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    México busca a su goleador azteca

    Después que en los últimos cinco torneos cortos del balompié local el campeón de goleo ha sido un jugador extranjero, se espera que para el Campeonato Clausura 2004 las cosas cambien y sea un mexicano el máximo romperredes.

    Dominio de los extranjeros

    La última vez que un futbolista mexicano se coronó como campeón goleador fue en los Torneos de Invierno 2000 y Verano 2001, cuando el delantero del Santos Laguna, Jared Borgetti, ganó sendos títulos con 17 y 13 goles de manera respectiva; desde entonces el dominio ha sido de foráneos. Antes de Borgetti, otros dos jugadores extranjeros lograron la corona de goleo de manera compartida, ellos fueron el delantero uruguayo Sebastián Abreu en el Torneo de Verano 2000 con Tecos de la UAG y el ecuatoriano Agustín Delgado (Necaxa).


    http://www.univision.com/content/content.jhtml?cid=318141
     
  24. Juanitoblue

    Juanitoblue New Member

    Dec 19, 2003
    Jalisco
    Does this mean that Club Guadalajara will be responsable for all the new mexican talent in this league? Issac Romo may not be too young, but at least he will get a real chance to play. If he played in any other club he would never have the same chances.

    Juanito!
     

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