Fool me thrice ... if fool me you can't get fooled again - The 2023-24 OTT

Discussion in 'Barcelona' started by celito, Aug 28, 2023.

  1. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Which one ? The one on the sideline ? If so that YC was for dissent. And on replay it looks like there is a step on his foot. But even if so, I wouldn't call that a bad dive / play act. I think he was fine in the final.
     
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  2. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    From the moment Dortmund did not convert those chances I already knew what was going to happen. It's a very recognizable, almost characteristic, storyline for these lucky bastards. The amount of times they've been outplayed and undeserving of the win in a CL match based on the football displayed is mind-boggling. I cannot wrap my head around how this keeps happening time and again. It's not even "hate" or sour grapes, it's genuine perplexion at the consistency of sheer luck one team can have in a particular tournament.


    Good points regarding the Mbappe hype. It could also be disastrous in the dressing room and for the team chemistry. At the moment there's no true "superstar" in the team. Also, Mbappe's favorite position is on the left where Vini currently plays and excels. I wonder how they'll solve that problem. Vini is a Ballon D'or candidate this season, no way they move him from that spot. I suppose Real need a proper striker so Mbappe will likely play there. It really irks me how they managed such a successful season without a proper striker. Sigh.

    One thing Madrid did well is get Mbappe on a salary that isn't exorbitant relative to the other stars in the team though I assume that they had to compensate that by letting Mbappe keep much more of his image rights then they would have liked.

    A man can dream, but you're right. We are always in for an exciting player (like Kvara earlier on) but abandon interest as soon as another team set their sights on him. Smh.


    Agreed. Good points to consider in the wake of Madrid's successes and superstar signings on top of it. Hopefully Araujo stays on as well even if he had a couple of hiccups this season. He can still be one of the best CB's in the world and is still relatively young as well. I also hope that Balde gets back on track and continues making the strides he was the season before this one.

    As for Flick, he definitely has more experience than Xavi and despite the hiccup with the German NT he's still the only manager bar Pep to have won the sextuple. I honestly have no idea what to expect from Flick, I just hope we get Bayern Flick and not German NT Flick.

    My only gripe is that with the current state of our attack it doesn't give you hope that we'll be reclaiming the domestic title anytime soon, not to mention the CL. Patience is the word, lots and lots of it.

    I'll do my best. A lot has happened in my personal life since I last frequented this forum, but as you said, exciting times lay ahead.
     
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  3. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    To be fair, if Borussia do score one or two goals in the first half, recent history tells us that it's very likely Madrid still mounts a comeback. But yeah, it's infuriating that the little luck needed to win always seems to bounce their way in the CL. Just in finals:

    - Ramos header in the last second of regular time.
    - Beat Atletico on PKs (Ramos gets away with an offsides goal)
    - Salah injury + Karius with a double blunder
    - 2nd time against Liverpool were't particularly great but won
    - Outplayed by Borussia

    You'd think at least in a couple of those finals, things wouldn't go their way. But they managed to win all of them somehow.

    Not mentioning the Juve final with their go ahead goal that came from a deflected shot. But they were better in that final. And that's aside from the crazy run seasons ago and many other close calls. This is truly a very unlikely run.
     
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  4. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    Seem like everything is set up for Flick's failure. I can see we will have a quite summer transfer window. Xavi asked for more signings in the summer and he was sacked. Flick is Laporta's choice, likely because he is a type of yes man manager, so he won't ask for much signings.
     
  5. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Ok, guess I'll have to look at it again. At first glance it looked like he went down without anyone near him.

    Yeah, but I feel like that is CL in general. You could say the same about most CL winners. Barca has been a bit lucky when they won it and a bit unlucky when they don't. For e.g. Edwin VdS had maybe the 2 worst games of his life in the 2009 and 2011 CL final (half the goals went in the middle of the net), the RVP red card in 2011 and no PK on Chelsea in 2009.

    Except in 2015, when Barca just romped to the title. No luck needed and there was barely even a close match.

    But in 2010 Inter got that offside goal and Barca was denied a potential winner by that "hand ball" goal which at that time should have stood every day of the week (only later did they change the interpretation of handball goals).
     
  6. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Agreed.

    Exactly.

    And whats more, we saw a child on Barça beat the living shyte out of their LB, at the Bernabeu. That child is only going to get better, while I dont recall LPB doing jack shyte to improve their defensive personnel. Them getting Mbappe will also not paper over their future defensive issues.

    Here's another thought for you:

    This current roster tool the lead on LPB, in BOTH CLASICOS. It took for Barça's manager to fall asleep/not properly use his bench, AND for Bellingham to have 90th minute heroics for LPB to win.

    IOW, with better in game management, it looks like there is ALREADY enough talent to beat LPB.

    Agreed. Araujo's best football is still ahead of him. And I also hope he sticks around.

    I dont rate Flick as highly as managers that will he available next season. And for that reason, I didn't favor his hire.

    But, just comparing his body of work to Xavi's when each man is/was hired, and setting aside how we feel about Xavi, Flick would be more likely to succeed.

    Well, as Xavi was 1-dimensional tactically, one would hope that a more experienced manager could find some way to enhance the players that are already here. At least, that's my hope.

    Hope better things are on your way.
     
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  7. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    #482 Khan, Jun 4, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2024
    I won't go over the sacking of Xavi again because you guys already know my views on that. I also think its a fool's errand to get anxious over the transfer window, and whether or not there will be additions or not. (Not calling anyone "a fool," but rather "fools errand" is an expression designating a useless exercise.)

    But I will remind you the following:

    "Experience carves out capacity."


    Flick has much more experience NOW, than Xavi does now. And so, one could hope that Flick would be more aware than a manager with less experience.

    Also, consider this:

    When LPB went up on Dortmund after having been outplayed all evening, did Ancelotti dance around and celebrate, or did he do his job, carefully considering his next move to SECURE THE VICTORY?

    Now, recall what Xavi did after Fermin scored for Barça to take the lead at the Bernabeu. Did he calmly take a moment to consider what to do next (I.e. remove Cancelo from the lineup to help SECURE THE VICTORY), or did he lose his fool mind, and dance around and celebrate?


    The difference between the two is EXPERIENCE. Flick has more of it, so one might anticipate that he can do better than his predecessor.

    We'll see.
     
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  8. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Here's what Romano has Laporta saying about the transfer window:




    And, I think that's a good thing, in a way. I DON'T want transfer fees being spent on 29+ year old guys, who will come in, and have 1 good season before their legs go away. I'd take an older player on a free, but I'd prefer no one older than 24 being brought in for a transfer fee of any sort.
     
  9. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    Agreed. That goes for Bernardo Silva and Kimmich as well, both 29, that ship has sailed, they should have come two or three seasons ago, not now. I hope those rumors go away fast. I’d rather stick to la Masia than go for them if they’re the only choices.
     
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  10. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    As expected, i don't think there are much signings this summer and Flick must do whatever with his current resources.

    I feel like Flick is just a safe option, likely the bridge between Xavi and the coach after Flick. Sort of like Sir Bobby Robson in 1996/97 season when he was the link between Johan and Van Gaal.

    To be fair i will be sastified if next season we can perform like 96/97 team (played very good attacking football, scored like more than 100 goals in Liga, won Copa Del Rey, Super Cup, Cup Winner). However there are differences in qualily of two squads.
     
  11. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Here's what ManURE want to do, and I think Barça would be wise to do similarly:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ot...=1&batchservertelemetry=1&noservertelemetry=1

    I agree with 4 of their 5 "transfer rules," except for the part where someone other than the manager sets the style of play; I think that should be the gaffer's gig.
     
  12. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Ok, after studying the draw, I think England should roll through their group.

    In the round of 16, they'll play a tomato can, and win.

    In the quarters, they'll play the 2nd placed team in Group B, which will be either of Spain/Croatia/Italy, where they'll lose.
     
  13. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Juilian Alvarez looks on the way out of City. Sure wish we had the money right about now ...
     
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  14. zizou555

    zizou555 Member+

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 4, 2007
    Newcastle Upon Tyne
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You will probably sell a squad player off. Max to Saudi. Even De Jong if he is truly available and wants to come.
     
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  15. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Ok, let's kill this once and for all. Here's a reference for the stoopid British media: https://www.capology.com/club/barcelona/salaries/

    De Jong is on €37MM/year for 2 more years. No one else in football will offer him anywhere close to that.

    Whats more, De Jong deferred a significant amount of his COVID-era salaries, purportedly ~€10MM due to him this season.

    For De Jong to leave Barça, he'd either have to be given >€50MM/year, OR bonuses to make up the difference, OR he'd have to give up a significant amount of cash.

    Add into it that he's now a family man, and Barcelona is one of the best cities on earth, and he loves living there, he'd have to be motivated to live elsewhere.


    TL/DR: Its fvkcing stoopid to bring up De Jong leaving anytime soon, full fvkcing stop.
     
  16. zizou555

    zizou555 Member+

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 4, 2007
    Newcastle Upon Tyne
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Barcelona media and club seem to want him out. As some fans. He actually can get some interest.

    I get what your saying and I agree that there is very little motivation for him to go. But he and Ronald are the few with real value and constant rumors.

    Point is I think your club will try to get alvarez if there is interest and there is a way.
     
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  17. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    I dont much care one way or the other about De Jong. Hes a good player, but like most signed during the Bartomeu Era, he's obscenely overpaid.

    I'm just noting that there are freely available sources (i.e. capology) that explain exactly why its a fool's errand to even discuss De Jong leaving.

    Even if he would want to leave (he doesn't), few clubs can afford the transfer fee, AND afford to pay him enough to be motivated to leave.


    To your point, could Barça afford Alvarez? Sure. But Romano already has Laporta on record as saying no one big is coming in.
     
  18. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    I wanted to also address this "rumour," emanating from the stoopid British media.

    Yes, he's good, and young, and most clubs in the game would want to have him in their team.

    But, he's also on a lower salary than Christensen, Inigo, and Araujo, while being younger and better than those three. But to further right the financial state of the club, wages need to be addressed as well, not just sales. Otherwise, Barça could remain in limbo as it pertains to registering players this fall.


    To sell Araujo, while keeping older and more expensive players doesn't really move the needle for Barça. I think that whats likely to happen is:

    1. The Nike deal closes much of the gap financially,
    2. Barca hope that France/Kounde perform well in the Euros,
    3. The players sold could be: Inigo, Kounde, and perhaps Raphinha.
     
  19. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Check out some of the skills on this 10 year old.

     
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  20. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Given the club's financial situation, I think selling someone like De Jong might not be enough to sign someone like Alvarez. I think more moves would have to be made.
     
  21. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    His stepovers are a bit Darwin Nunesque but some of his other skills are pretty sweet and creative.
     
  22. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    It'll be Real Oviedo v Asspanyol in the promotion playoff final to determine the 20th La Liga team for next season. Two legs, first leg in Oviedo.

    One division lower, Barca Atletic play Cordoba in a two-leggwd final for a spot in the Segunda next season. First leg in BCN.
     
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  23. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Inter Miami beat Philly with 9 men ( the match was still tied when they went down to 9)! :laugh: No Messi or Suarez either, obviously.
     
  24. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

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