NSR: Food thread

Discussion in 'Colombia' started by Tio Nicci, Jul 22, 2015.

  1. jay luis

    jay luis Member+

    Sep 14, 2013
    Corona, Nyc
    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Pizza is from New York City and the best pizza from New York City ..many tried to copy but failed. The pizza we know here is not the same in Italy ..not even the same style .
     
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  2. jay luis

    jay luis Member+

    Sep 14, 2013
    Corona, Nyc
    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Well at least in the United States I can say that nyc style pizza is the best lol
     
  3. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Si existe el marketing pero el café de Colombia , si tiene un elemento diferenciador, que gran parte lo prefiere

    Tanto que España y otros países le dieron privilegios fiscales al no ser un café corriente .

    Que sea mejor o peor si ya es subjetivo , pero bueno también hay gente que prefiere la carne dura que no se puede cortar sobre la tierna . Y eso sigue siendo subjetivo
     
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  4. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Yeah tou said is diferentt

    In São Paulo they said that they have th best pizza

    Here we eat pizza with bocadillo for example hahaha
     
  5. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Coffee is a huge huge business and while many have taken market share from Colombian coffee growers, it is still considered one of the finest in the world. We're talking about large batching as well. Growing fine coffee beans is an art to itself. Just like growing grapes in fine vineyards, there is an art to the process. I've tried wines in the Hamptons (NY) and with all the disposable money around as much as they try to make it 'marketable', they can't grow the same type of grape that they can harvest in California. The marketing aspect is simply there to support, analyze, execute and define what the market will bear = how much people, are willing to pay. But the product still has to offer substance and a benefit in order to be marketable in the first place. Colombian coffee is still highly in demand for it's consistency, farming, climate and processing.
     
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  6. elviejomen

    elviejomen Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Hasbrouck Heights NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    es depende del producto, hay un libro sobre el fashion industry en los estados unidos y hablan de Hollywood playing a key role, en el mundo de las modas "el high status" es clave para vender tu producto.

    Pero en otros productos, influencian pero no son clave. Por ejemplo los Beats de Dr Dre, se comercialisaron como un producto de alta calidad backed up por un dj, pero gente que sabe de musica dicen que no son buenos, es algo que se puede medir.
    Apple años atras se podia decir que sus productos eran superiores y por lo tanto cobraban mas, esto no era subjective, realmente eran mejores por razones cuantitativas, ahi no hay subjetividad. (ojo en ese tiempo, ya las cosas han cambiado). Pero en la comida esta nocion es totalmente subjetiva. porque estamos hablando de los gustos y los gustos son influenciados por muchas cosas y no hay forma de probar que gustos son mejores que otros. Hay "entidades" que señala un set de valores que identifican que tienen que tener estos productos para ser de calidad, pero es bastante subjetivo
     
  7. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Si pero en la comida tambien hay gente que le gusta la carne dura......y eso lo llaman subjetivo, creo que si hay conceptos de mayor aceptación que otros con diferencia
     
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  8. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    I tend to agree. Although, for my .02 the best pizza one can ever have is still the famous Frank Pepe's in New Haven, CT.... with the key being the almost 100 year old coal ovens. The flavors can't be duplicated. In NYC, You have to really go to Brooklyn, Staten Island and the Bronx. Places like Patsy's, John's, Mario's, DiFara, Zero Otto Nove, Lombardi's, Grimaldi's, Arturo's are legendary --I've been to all and it's an experience!

    There are a lot of 'new' Hipster places that have taken the art of great Pizza in Manhattan and Brooklyn and have put their own spin but I still have a problem paying north of $25 for a what is essentially dough, water, salt, tomatoes and cheese....even if organically grown on some Hipster's rooftop!
     
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  9. elviejomen

    elviejomen Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Hasbrouck Heights NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Por eso, si racionalisamos no hay forma de probar que x cafe es de "superior" calidad que otro. Las caracteristicas que hacen que un café sea superior son subjetivas.
     
  10. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali

    I don't know if I will ever be able to discern good coffee from great coffee...but I can surely tell you when I have had a cup of BAD coffee. And that my friend is what most countries can produce ;)
     
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  11. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Food and service tend to be very subjective but as with products there are systems and knowledgeable people that make an effort to give us a view as objective as possible. Now, image is not necessarily a reflect of the actual quality of the product /service but it's not totally detached. Further more, improving quality or image is not easy but is not impossible. Anf certainly there are plenty of cases when a company can ride their image for a while despite making/giving crappy products/services.
     
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  12. crzdcolombian

    crzdcolombian Member+

    Jul 17, 2006
    Avon,CT
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Pizza in Italy is gross just soggy bread with a little tomato sauce and light toppings prob a lot healthier but just doesn't taste the same
     
  13. elviejomen

    elviejomen Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Hasbrouck Heights NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    but there is no a clear relation, we expect something bitter for example to be bad, but for some food the bitter the higher quality; Pepino gave the example of hard meat.

    now lets take for example another subjective concept, "Beautiful" or "attractive".
    in this case unlike "taste" there are clear rules and im going to explain them quickly
    How you make a product more "beautiful" or more "attractive"? there are basic and clear rules who are established that are embedded in our brain we have symmetry/proportion laws and gestalt principles
    a well design product should follow those principles
    [​IMG]
    that's a pocket radio designed by Dieter Rams for Braun back in the 50's while on the other hand you have the famous Ipod designed by jony ive, there is a clear relation in proportion and symmetry that works you ask any designer and he will told you without a doubt that is a well designed product because is following those rules. I don't think taste in food can be rationalized as much even though both are subjective.

    Im going to give another example, something very abstract such as forms can communicate clear messages

    how come we recognize this as aggressive
    [​IMG]

    and this is as friendly ?
    [​IMG]

    one of the main reason is the headlights, our brain relate that to the eyes, we process small eyes as aggressive while big eyes as friendly.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    there is a whole clear psychology process when you are doing something so subjective such as designing or determining a form for a product, while the taste in food is more ambiguous and subjective if you ask me
     
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  14. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I don't disagree with you jevoman, I only said that there's a whole group of people that try to put some sense into it. And while I for the most agree that simetry and certain features touch universal triggers in our minds, you also have to acknowledge that beauty has a social ingredient and beauty is not the same to every person even within the same culture.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. jay luis

    jay luis Member+

    Sep 14, 2013
    Corona, Nyc
    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Colombians like their steak too well done . Everytime I'm in the motherland and I'm served a piece of steak I feel like I'm eating beef jerky, too damn hard .
     
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  16. jay luis

    jay luis Member+

    Sep 14, 2013
    Corona, Nyc
    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    image.jpg
    Had some sudado de pollo similar to this photo
     
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  17. elviejomen

    elviejomen Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Hasbrouck Heights NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    @dappip remember that even though is very rationalized, still is subjective.
    and with the symetry and proportion im just touching surface... There is more elements that influence choosing a form or inspiration


    But going back to the "subjectiveness" I guess thats how you spell it In some products is way more subjective and that's my point with the coffee; I do agree that part of the success of Colombian coffee must be in the product "quality" or what we perceive as quality but the way that this has been marketed and is presented is really what put this product ahead of the rest. This marketing is not recent btw, there are some old ads in english talking about Colombian cofee, so there is tradition which is key when you market a premium product
     
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  18. elviejomen

    elviejomen Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Hasbrouck Heights NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Ya me dio hambre
     
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  19. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Actually there's plenty of history of horrible bad products made by luxury brands.



    I'm surprised they didn't include any range rovers and only one Jaguar.

    There's also a big list of overpriced luxury electronics that didn't hurt brands that much but that illustrate how brand recognition is not necessarily linked to quality.
     
  20. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali

    The issue I take with what you're saying is that you're trying to suggest that one of the best coffee nations in the world is simply only a marketing ploy. Of course the marketing was forward thinking and smart but necessary because coffee, like oil, is a commoditized product and any differences that can mark a distinction in the marketplace will make a difference in price. But like crude oil, there are vast differences in the type of oil each country can drill, produce and bring to market. That's not subjective. That's scientific. In order to garner any sort of accolade, you have to be able to prove it. Now you can make a claim that 10 of the finest noses and palates have no clue in what makes a fine coffee when they judge an international tasting competition. But that claim becomes harder to justify when the same group of fine judging continue to get similar results year after year. While much of this 'judging' can be subjective as to what makes a great coffee, the rules are clear and the brands and types of coffee are purposely concealed to make sure that all is fair. Furthermore, they are tested against not only different regions of the same country but different parts of the world altogether and still come to the same conclusion. Again, I'm not referring to how much the market will pay = marketing but rather that the market will accept that it is worth paying more than others.
     
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  21. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    I grew up eating my meat well done. It wasn't until I started my professional career and had an expense account( and eventually met my wife) that I really started to have a taste for good true red meat.Now I know the clear difference. Most of why it's overcooked in many parts of Colombia has to do with a lack of preparation and knowledge of cooking. Tradition tends to trump anything new. Many of our parents reminded us each day just how difficult it was to just make ends meet. Meat had to last as much as possible because it was so expensive. One would have to stretch the life of that protein as long as possible. Also, the way meat was farmed, cut, refrigerated and sold was always under question as many laws (even the FDA in the US has struggled) didnt protect the consumer. So you would cook the hell out of everything to make sure it was as 'clean' as possible.
    This is why when you order your meat ALWAYS order it at least medium to medium well (except for ground beef). My wife worked at a 4 star restaurant in NYC (4 star is the most a NYC restaurant could get --not Michelin stars) and she told me when they would have a 'well done ' order they would love it because they could use a piece of meat that was sent back to the kitchen for being overdone. Similar to any restaurants that want to put some type of sauce or coating ON your meat. Avoid this because it's very difficult to distinguish a fresh piece of meat when it's covered with some type of sauce. Always ask for it on the side.
     
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  22. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    It seems that you have tried the corrientazo hahaha.......Nowadays bogota have very good restaurants for meat a little expensive but woth it ......

    In the coast they have very good meat (cordoba especially) and there you can get very nice and good meat .....


    Now this is a funny explanation about our shitty meat and food

    Since Minute 7:59 “nuestra carne dura“


    if you have time i recomended all the video
     
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  23. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Pepino is this a series? These guys are hilarious. I know about the one with the NT but I didnt know they did other stuff.
     
  24. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Hahaha yeah they have a lot .....all are good i like “por que somos asi“
     
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  25. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Amazing post bro! I was going to post something along the lines and my experience mimics yours in regards of how bad was the meat and how we didn't know better. And like J-mezzy I used to be a big fan of pasta and pizza but now I know better and frankly prefer Mexican and Sushi.

    And pepino's video is awesome too. Food has got better in Colombia and you can find it even if overpriced. The cows running up and down craked me.
     

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