Follow up on a study about Israeli influence on US foreign policy

Century's Best · Mar 21, 2006

It's been widely discussed, and pro-Israeli elements in the United States have not ignored this. Here is a piece of news which speaks about this.

http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20060320-124726-1902r

Rostam · Mar 21, 2006

This is what Francis Fukuyama, himself a neoconservative-- but more centrist, alarms about in his book. They have agendas way beyond what average American would want to see this country dragged down to.

The article focuses strongly on the role of the "neo-conservatives" within the Bush administration in driving the decision to launch the war on Iraq.

"The main driving force behind the war was a small band of neo-conservatives, many with ties to the Likud," Mearsheimer and Walt argue." Given the neo-conservatives' devotion to Israel, their obsession with Iraq, and their influence in the Bush administration, it isn't surprising that many Americans suspected that the war was designed to further Israeli interests."

"The neo-conservatives had been determined to topple Saddam even before Bush became president. They caused a stir early in 1998 by publishing two open letters to Clinton, calling for Saddam's removal from power. The signatories, many of whom had close ties to pro-Israel groups like JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs) or WINEP (Washington Institute for Near Eastern Policy), and who included Elliot Abrams, John Bolton, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Bernard Lewis, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz, had little trouble persuading the Clinton administration to adopt the general goal of ousting Saddam. But they were unable to sell a war to achieve that objective. They were no more able to generate enthusiasm for invading Iraq in the early months of the Bush administration. They needed help to achieve their aim. That help arrived with 9/11. Specifically, the events of that day led Bush and Cheney to reverse course and become strong proponents of a preventive war," Walt and Mearsheimer write.
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Munuc · Mar 21, 2006

Yes, it has gotten so bad that I check for Jews under my bed every night.

Century's Best · Mar 21, 2006

Munuc said:

Yes, it has gotten so bad that I check for Jews under my bed every night.
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Brilliant! I'm sure you can argue with Fukuyama and the Harvard authors!

Revolt · Mar 21, 2006

Munuc said:

Yes, it has gotten so bad that I check for Jews under my bed every night.
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That's okay; Karl Chester Minor checks for the Irish.

odessit19 · Mar 21, 2006

Century's Best said:

It's been widely discussed, and pro-Israeli elements in the United States have not ignored this. Here is a piece of news which speaks about this.

http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20060320-124726-1902r
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WTF is your point? I can argue that US has much more influence on Israel than vice versa or that oil-rich countries influence US much more than Israel. You have this stick up your arse, which is bothering you and you can't live with yourself knowing that America has Israel's back and that you just can't imagine how a Jewish state can do so well and it's eating you up inside. Pretty sad life you live.

Century's Best · Mar 21, 2006

odessit19 said:

WTF is your point? I can argue that US has much more influence on Israel than vice versa or that oil-rich countries influence US much more than Israel.
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Then write a paper and publish it, rather than writing to somebody whose life (about which you know NOTHING ABOUT) you claim to be sad.

odessit19 said:

You have this stick up your arse, which is bothering you and you can't live with yourself knowing that America has Israel's back and that you just can't imagine how a Jewish state can do so well and it's eating you up inside. Pretty sad life you live.
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Impressive ad hominem as well as distortions of what I say, given I have never once written anything deploring whatever prosperity Israel has experienced since 1948. But of course, the authors of the Harvard study have cylindrical chunks of wood in their rectums as well, given they put so much time into their work and got it out there.

Now let's see a real argument. Not that I expect any from a trash-talking slanderer like yourself. I doubt it'll take more than 2 posts before you openly accuse me of anti-semitism - which, by the way, the Harvard study says happens when critics of Israeli policy voice their views.

odessit19 · Mar 21, 2006

Century's Best said:

Then write a paper and publish it, rather than writing to somebody whose life (about which you know NOTHING ABOUT) you claim to be sad.

Impressive ad hominem as well as distortions of what I say, given I have never once written anything deploring whatever prosperity Israel has experienced sine 1948. But of course, the authors of the Harvard study have cylindrical chunks of wood in their rectums as well, given they put so much time into their work and got it out there.

Now let's see a real argument. Not that I expect any from a trash-talking slanderer like yourself. I doubt it'll take more than 2 posts before you openly accuse me of anti-semitism - which, by the way, the Harvard study says happens when critics of Israeli policy voice their views.
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Let's see. This is the second thread in the last few days which you started on Israel's policy and how it affects US. Why?
Say what you want, but I won't waste my intelligence, when I know it would bring me the same result as pissing against the wind, knowing your view on things.

Century's Best · Mar 21, 2006

odessit19 said:

Let's see. This is the second thread in the last few days which you started on Israel's policy and how it affects US. Why?
Say what you want, but I won't waste my intelligence, when I know it would bring me the same result as pissing against the wind, knowing your view on things.
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Thanks for confirming that all you can do is trash talk. No real arguments - as I expected.

Bye now.

odessit19 · Mar 21, 2006

Century's Best said:

Thanks for confirming that all you can do is trash talk. No real arguments - as I expected.

Bye now.
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Answer my question first before you tuck your tail between your legs and run, why did you start the same thread on Israel's influence of US foreign policy in the past several days? What's bothering you so much?

MikeLastort2 · Mar 21, 2006

How much anti-Semetic Jew hating crap will Century's Best be allowed to post before he receives his well-deserved ban?

Century's Best · Mar 21, 2006

odessit19 said:

Answer my question first before you tuck your tail between your legs and run, why did you start the same thread on Israel's influence of US foreign policy in the past several days? What's bothering you so much?
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You mock me by saying I have a stick up my arse; you say my life is sad; and you accuse me of not being able to live with the fact that a Jewish state is doing so well. Not that my feelings are hurt (far from it - I love it when people have nothing but ad hominems and imagined orifice blockage accusations in the face of facts).

And now you demand an answer? Then again, you never said you weren't arrogant and pretentious.

Tuck my tail and run? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Write a paper on your views that you earlier voiced. I'll read it if it's worthwhile; given your posts, however, have the intellectual quality of swine offal, I speculate it wouldn't be worth my time.

Century's Best · Mar 21, 2006

MikeLastort2 said:

How much anti-Semetic Jew hating crap will Century's Best be allowed to post before he receives his well-deserved ban?
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Why is writing about a Harvard paper on Israeli influence on US foreign policy "anti-Semitic Jew hating crap?"

By your logic, if the Japanese government or the ruling authorities of Portugal had equivalent lobbies here and the resulting effects on US foreign policy were equivalent, would anyone speaking about them be posting "anti-Japanese Japanese hating crap" or "anti-Portuguese Luso hating crap?"

This is EXACTLY what the Harvard paper mentions. Every time someone criticizes Israel, accusations of hating Jews fly. It's dirty play, but it works - and which is why these accusations... fly.

Century's Best · Mar 21, 2006

MikeLastort2, I sent you a PM.

MikeLastort2 · Mar 21, 2006

Century's Best said:

MikeLastort2, I sent you a PM.
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Feel free to hold your breath until you get a reply.

Century's Best · Mar 21, 2006

MikeLastort2 said:

Don't expect me to write back.
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Oh well. I tried. Whatever.

Century's Best · Mar 21, 2006

LOL! You changed your reply.

odessit19 · Mar 21, 2006

Century's Best said:

You mock me by saying I have a stick up my arse; you say my life is sad; and you accuse me of not being able to live with the fact that a Jewish state is doing so well. Not that my feelings are hurt (far from it - I love it when people have nothing but ad hominems and imagined orifice blockage accusations in the face of facts).

And now you demand an answer? Then again, you never said you weren't arrogant and pretentious.

Tuck my tail and run? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Write a paper on your views that you earlier voiced. I'll read it if it's worthwhile; given your posts, however, have the intellectual quality of swine offal, I speculate it wouldn't be worth my time.
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Thanks for answering my question

Century's Best · Mar 21, 2006

odessit19 said:

Thanks for answering my question
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Thanks for showing you can't debate your way out of a paper bag - though you can insult with the best of them.

odessit19 · Mar 21, 2006

Century's Best said:

Thanks for showing you can't debate your way out of a paper bag - though you can insult with the best of them.
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Why should I debate you when you can't even answer one simple question. As you can see, it is not just me that has noticed your "personality," thus I want to ask you what was the reason for your double thread on this issue?

Rostam · Mar 22, 2006

The question of the topic is quite reasonable. Here are the areas that need be discussed:
1) Understanding the neocons philosophy
2) The influence of the neocons on foreign policy
3) The actions of current administration based on neocon doctrine

there is a lot that must be learnt for all, and I would hope that the mods can control any diversion of the thread.

Amerikaki · Mar 23, 2006

The big question is:

Why study foreign policy concerning Israel and not foreign policy concerning ANY OTHER COUNTRY? There is a lot to be said about foreign policy towards many many nations, yet Israel is at the center of this discussion? Thats pretty ridiculous...

Matrim55 · Mar 23, 2006

Amerikaki said:

The big question is:

Why study foreign policy concerning Israel and not foreign policy concerning ANY OTHER COUNTRY? There is a lot to be said about foreign policy towards many many nations, yet Israel is at the center of this discussion? Thats pretty ridiculous...
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Good point.

I also fail to see how the neoconservative foreign policy has helped Israel AT ALL. If anything, Israel is even more isolated in the world than they were 6 years ago, an overtly hostile government has taken control of the Palestinian territories, and Israel is in the process of pulling out of areas they've held for 40 years.

Really, to look at the condition of that part of the world today and say "It's a Jewish conspiracy!" takes a staggering leap of amoral, alogical mental gymnastics. Even I'm not capable of it, and I'm Lebanese!

Also, please note that while there may be ties between the Likud and some American Neo-Cons there are much, much much stronger ties (read: financial) between the House of Saud and the Oval Office itself. And who was helped most by Hussein's removal? That'd be the House of Saud.

Matrim55 · Mar 23, 2006

Rostam said:

The question of the topic is quite reasonable. Here are the areas that need be discussed:
1) Understanding the neocons philosophy
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Doesn't appear, to the neutral observer, to have anything to do with Israel one way or the other. It has to do with oil.

2) The influence of the neocons on foreign policy
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Well, seeing as the President, the Vice President and their closest advisors are all neocons, I'd say they have a pretty strong influence.

3) The actions of current administration based on neocon doctrine
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Duh.

there is a lot that must be learnt for all, and I would hope that the mods can control any diversion of the thread.
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Frankly, it should be diverted directly into the sun. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together should be able to tell by now that this thing wasn't about Jews, revenge, democracy or freedom: it was about oil. Lots of it. Pretending otherwise makes you (royal you) both stupid and bigoted.

Scarecrow · Mar 23, 2006

Everyone has it wrong. It is the New World Order and the Illumnati and Freemasons and they are working with their reptillian overlords to take over the world.