Geoduck... sounds a bit costly.?? I enjoyed going to Tampa for the Florida "derby" We had a couple hundred Mutany fans at Lockhart, at the "derby" Both Mutiny, and Fusion management failed to capitalize on the "derby" but it was there, but no more. ( 3 hour drive every couple months, was not bad at all. I agree with leca, Lockhart went to waste because mismanagement by MLS and Horowbich/management. Also, Lockhart was much cheaper to operate, and 11000 mismanaged fans was not a bad turn out for the $$$$. and no marketing...at all. One op the main problems was inter-related, MLS greedy action, charging 20 million for a 5 million franchise, an second was dumby Horowitz to pay and not know what he got into. The lies they left behind will be hard to overcome... It will take a new commissioner, and a investing group with knowledge of the potential of this market..before we see any team back here.
For all those wearing blinders, The truth hurts. You want to believe the problem was inherently Floridian. Of course it wasn't. You have to face the fact the you can be contracted at anytime by those brainiacs at HQ. This league is a comedy of errors. I think I'll win the lottery and build a SSS in Yeehaw Junction (rt. 60 and the turnpike). I can get all that Disney walk up traffic. I'm sure I'd get MLS' blessing. After all, they let Horowitz in...
The only way MLS should return to florida is if an owner is found willing to build a soccer specific stadium in miami. Not tampa and not ft lauderdale.
Fanaddict... (yes we need an owner) but, what and why, are you basing the opinion on ??? "soccer speciffic satium" in Miami are you an expert on this area ???
If you had to be an expert to post something on bigsoccer there wouldn't be any posts. I just think tampa and ft lauderdale have shown they can't support soccer. Unless they got a very favorable lease deal from the orange bowl a successful franchise needs to own a soccer stadium where the most die hard soccer fans are and that's miami.
I don't know much about Miami but when I see the USA team there in the Gold Cup there were hardly any USA fans. I would guess those fans that are there are not mostly MLS fans. That's how I see it. So Tampa, I would assume, has just as many MLS fans has Miami I would think.
Paul.A. very few places in US have nats support as a rule. California no dif if US plays Mexico, the same in DC. and most places besides 1 or 2 venues, it does not mean we should not build on the fan support the Nats get, including many of us in Fl. this is a great place for soccer, and we should have a pro team. not being MLs fans, does not translate in not being huge Nats fans WE ARE
Here we go again; another AH from the Castro regime trying to divide SF and claim it as Miami. Sooner or later you will realize that Miami is part of South Florida. South Florida icomprises of the Palm beaches to the Keys and everything in between it is not just MIAMI. Perhaps this is the real reason MLS left SF. The battle between Orange Toilet Bowl versus Lackhart the real soccer stadium.
that attendance was not a problem in Tampa???????????. You got to be kidding me. Raymond James Stadium looked like JFK national cemetery. NO one, maybe a 4 thousands per game realistically.
IIRC, Tampa Bay had better attendance than San Jose in the Quakes' MLS Cup year. The problems with the Mutiny all stemmed from lack of an I/O. There was more pressure on MLS to control the expenses involved in running the team than there was to field a competitive club in RJS, so that's exactly what happened. As for why no I/O could be found, George Steinbrenner publicly said that no one could make money running the Mutiny as long as they were saddled with that ridiculous and onerous lease.
Would FIU Stadium be a better option than the Orange Bowl if the team played in Miami? I know the stadium seats around 17,000 and has a turf, I don't know about the area it's in though.
OB is not all that bad...FIU is ok, but not the best location for this market..we have a few more stadiums..BUT, Lockhart is still tops.. centrally located, easy access from north, south, east, west..the long term quality season ticket holder will come 30 miles north and south of Lockhart. OB would be more walk up type fan, do to the demographics.. It is cheap to get to Lockhart, and tickets are cheap, and has room around it for expansion of the facility, plenty of parking 3-5 $ even free if you want to walk a couple blocks. the Stadium was not the problem here. 1) the amount invested by Horowitz was stupid, 20 million for the franchise, and 10-15 million more for renovation ( so he says) of Lockhart..etc he was never going to make a fortune on his investment, soon. 2) Mismagement of the area..11000 was not bad at all, word of mouth got them out. NOT gimmicks, advertisng, double headers, give a ways! If any of you have never been at Lockhart with 15,000 fans there, I will tell you by far it is the best place to be for league soccer ala MLS anywhere in the nation 21000 seats, only 20 to 23 rows up, with the field lines, 8 yards avay from front row. the best ! Crew stadium comes close, but still nothing like Lockhart.
We had our chance???? Let's face it, you people who think we had our chance and failed when it comes to pro soccer here in S. Florida are blithering idiots!!!!! If the general population doesn't even know the team exists, whose fault is that???? The Fans???? Remember in their last year of existence, the Fusion increased its attendance by 49%!!!!! Was that through marketing? Was that through promotions? The answer to both of those questions is a resounding NO!!!!! It was through word of mouth between the fans and one lone radio sports show host. The fans did their part, you jerks!!! We had some of the most proactive fans in the league!!!!! We increased the attendance!!! We brought more people to the games. That did not happen with any help from MLS or Horrorratz. We won't get a team anytime in the near future, I have resigned myself to that fact. But it is not because we didn't try and we didn't support our team. It is because we were blessed with another owner who couldn't care less about the fans.
If you didn't watch it, how do you know it was third rate? And, dude, how many monikers have you registered? At least 5. Here's a hint...try to post with at least a slightly different writing style. You might be able to fool some people here.
superdave you ignorant twit... or are you GarberPinocchioNFL ??? you just cant believe that we have the passion that in you can only imagine that exist in your MonkeyLeague. what ignorant baboon (monkey) you must be,,,, to accuse 1 of being many.. misinformation you are spreading, just like the monkey with a goat T, GarberPinocchioNFL the clueless commissioner. for every 1 here from seFlorida there are 1000 that feel the same.. we love soccer, and the contracted Fusion was the ticket for the N American style soccer for the future. you know nothing about passion.... you now nothing about us !!!! Lockhart....soccer heaven USA
Obviously if MLS grows. It has to be back in S. Florida. I don't know the area that well but I know there are soccer fans of other leagues in big numbers. I also believe that MLS eventually should come back to Tampa. I'd love a team in Orlando, but I don't know if it would work at this time. Maybe a long time down the road!
That was my point the other day. If they came back next year I would be afraid to support them. WHy should I? What guarantee do I have that after supporting them and sending all my freinds out there to support them. They are no going to F*(&&^k us again! Until Garbge and his cronies are outa there; it will be a pretty hard league to trust. F*&^k! the MLS! I'm just as happy without them. With the type of soccer fans and players we have down here we should be able to create out own league.
superputz I watched both the World Cup and the MLS contracted season and I will tell you superputz that the only thing worse than watching MLS this season was watching some of the A league broadcasts. MLS had a third rate season, there is no question about it. Also where did you get your forensics degree in writing style. It truly amazes me that you could see through the facade and deduce that all of us writing in support of the S.Florida market, are actually one person. Well I for one am proud to live in S. Florida, even if we can't vote or read ballots. We are an untapped market of soccer riches. It will just take someone with a little backbone and balls to get to those riches. You superputz should stop embarrassing yourself and stay off the boards for awhile. There is more than one of us.
Contraction rule I pretty much agree with this. In fact, why not make it a league rule or something. Rule: If a team is contracted from MLS, a soccer specific staduim must be built in order for the team to return to the same city. Hate to say it, but in our league it probaly has to work that way. We really need to know that a team is truly being invested in, and a stadium (*hopefully*) would prove that.
This isn't that complicated. The attendances were low but not fatally low, and both were improving. The problems were that Kraft isn't quite as wealthy as Anschutz and he's running an NFL team as well. He needed to scale back his losses in soccer and now only owns the Revolution in MLS. He was at the point of withdrawing from that if he had to endure several more years of losses associated with clubs that were not his. So, a date was set to find owners for those two clubs. Miami's owner left for similar reasons, and that's why they needed a new one. Tampa never had one, and that was the biggest problem. As soon as a wealthy and committed I/O steps up to the plate, MLS will return to those markets, even if it has lost a great deal of momentum from contraction. The person who signed that horrendous lease with the Glazers should be tested for drugs. In fact, the whole Tampa Bay front office should have been let go a long time ago. They have the largest youth market in the USA yet were unable to get those kids to Mutiny matches?!?! Disgraceful. Both markets are more than viable, but until they have financially able and committed I/Os, and solid front offices, it's just not going to happen. -Tron
Re: superputz But wait...I thought you never watched it? I'm confused. Oh wait, no I'm not. You are lying or you were lying. Actually, it's simple. Not all of you, just several of you. Coach River, leca, and one of the guys with "Florida" in his name.
I like that "superputz" that is what you are !! First you accused 5 people of being 1 and the same... Now you are down to 3, and still not right, just like bozo GarberNFL the Contractor the misinformer. se Florida WP Beach to Miami Beach 4,500.000 million one of the best soccer markets in US, with Lockhart in the middle....Lockhart "soccer specific stadium" matter of fact the best soccer stadium in US, well above todays MLS standards. 21,000 seats with 11000 passionate fans last year....and so much more...in the future, when Garber is gone! here! "superputz" go back to your superiors at MLS and give them the info...