After watching the third-rate theatrics by Johnny Walker and Amado Guevara, I am getting real tired of the flopping in the MLS. It's bad enough that it delays the game and is a dishonest way to get a favorable call, but the sight of a grown man writhing in supposed agony is pretty disgusting. It is interesting to note that this didn't happen in the WUSA. Heather Mitts finished a game with a broken leg. Not only is she is also a lot better looking than Walker or Guevara, she's tougher than they are. If someone is hurt, get him off the field. If he is really hurt he can be treated there and subbed for at the next opportunity. If he is not, his team can play short until he is allowed to come back in. We saw bad examples of this in the World Cup. Brazil comes to mind. The MLS doesn't need this.
My favorite flop on Sunday was when Jolley went up with Roner for a ball in the penalty area, and pretended to injure his leg, requiring treatment on the field and then limping around for a few minutes afterward. Then, 45 minutes later, he scores the goal to seal the game and does a *#*#*#*#ing backflip.
I agree that flopping detracts from the game. Seems like the goalies this year are the worst. However, same goes for the Quakes. I've seen Landon flop a lot this year. That, along with his stupid elbow swipe at Walker and his frequent bitching about calls, has lowered my respect for him. But let's face it, flopping is an international problem in soccer. It's a lot worst in Italy where diving is an art form. Hopefully, MLS will never get that bad.
I actually think he's done less of it this year than before. Still, I too wish he'd cut it out altogether, but as someone said, it's a part of his game. Gotta take a little bad with the good , I guess.
Good point, I like it. I think I've watched a fair amount of women's soccer and I don't think I've seen any of them ever dive. Even the three Brazilians on the CyberRays always kept it above board (I'm sure there's someone out there who's going to say, "Oh, yeah, well you should have seen....." And StillKickin' is right, too, LanDo hasn't dived as much as he did previously, despite what the guy in the seat next to me at Spartan claims in his constant bitching. The FIFA Laws of the Game are clear on that, simulation is to be rewarded with a yellow card. But, I doubt that our referee-friend of last Sunday, Gus St. Dork, has even read them.
thats what me and my friend were saying while we were watching the game Sunday. We have both played for around 15 years and rarely do we see girls do that kind of stuff. We are both big fans of the WUSA and the womens team and hardly ever see that. I'm not sure why thats the case.
yeah, flopping is definitely an international problem. it happens at every level. the refs have to take better care to stop some of this stuff by carding it. however, i am a DCU fan who was rooting for the Quakes and I really don't think that Guevara was acting on this one. It seemed very clear from the replays that LD took a step into Guevara AFTER the ball was gone and simply kicked Guevara in the shins. That hurts. LD admitting that he told Guevara in Spanish as he lay on the ground "i had to do it", shows that he knows he took a chunk out of him as well.
I don't want to start a war on here or anything, but I'd say it's about time he was actually in REAL PAIN as he lay flopping around. LD finally made it worth his (Guevara's) while. As far as the women not flopping, I have 3 daughters, all played soccer (my 17 year old is still playing) and I think maybe girls don't flop and roll around because they are so happy to get to play a sport. After all, Title 9 and all that, it's still been a man's world, so to speak, and they're just excited to be able to play something and they don't want to waste their time rolling around. When I was growing up, we girls didn't get to play anything.
Re: Re: Flopping in the MLS Well, the thing is, most of the floppers in MLS aren't American-born. They grow up accustomed to seeing people flop and get their way. America just doesn't have that culture- we are very tough on the males (especially the athletes) in this country, and women know how to be tough. The WUSA doesn't have flopping because the players don't see the advantage in it. They work their @$$es off to the ball and they never think about just dropping to the ground to get a call.
Point 1) Well taken, I agree. This guy deserves some serious payback. Not only did we have the red-card send-off for the towel incident via Ramiro, but he pulled the same kind of crap on Zacharias Thornton, and one or two other incidents that are vaguely remembered. If one wants to start a war, let me ask this question. "Why is it that the greatest protagonists of the dive/flop are Latin Americans?" Point 2) I graduated from high school in the '50s and remember a time that most of you under the age of 40 can't even imagine. The era when girls were not supposed to even sweat. There was something called the GAA (Girls Athletic Association) but competitive sports were a no-no. That's a major reason I was so pleasantly amazed when I came back to the states in the late 1970's and saw boys and girls on the same teams playing competitive soccer.
Re: Re: Flopping in the MLS I'd argue the Italians are more accomplished floppers than Latin Americans. I'm sure a big part of it is tradition, but as for why the tradition started in the first place, I'm under 40 and can't answer.
1.) Stop with the Donovan is a flopper crap. He was a flopper in 2001 and was criticized for it by most on this board, in the playoff series vs Miami, he was embarrassing and I criticized him worse than most. In 2002, he was getting alot of "play-ons" in the box on legitimate fouls, probably due to his bad rep in 2001. It's 2003 and Donovan trys to fight thru tackles more than ever. More confidence? Probably. The guy has changed for the better and I think it was because he realized that it isn't what USA or MLS soccer is about. Give him a break, the guy has one temper tantrum and you generalize his season? That's ridiculous. 2.) I don't mind a flop or an embellishment, that's up to the ref to decide. I do mind the time it takes from a game when they lie on the ground writhing in mock pain(90% of the time)......that kills me. Mulrooney probably took the nastiest knack last sunday and he was up sooner than anyone. 3.) Hopefully Guevara takes a page from Donovan's book and loses the flop act, he's talented and doesn't need to do it. If I wanted to have down time between plays i'd go to a Raider or 49er game, that's why they are called "downs".
Outsider lurking here... One of the most refreshing things about this Women's World Cup was the distinct LACK of diving and the flow of play. I watched every game here in Portland, OR and on the first night I was trying to figure out why it felt like the game seemed to be flying and then it hit me that I had not seen ONE stretcher in nearly 3 hours of football. That was really really refreshing. I think internationally they need to clamped down hard and not just with cards. Some thoughts: 1) If you are carried off on a stretcher than you are out of the match. period. You get subbed. 2) Three strikes and your out. If you stop play in the guise of an injury and have to leave the field. The third time is it. Off you go - either you are subbed or your team plays a man down. 3) Viedo Review. Automatic three match ban for diving. I bet we see a hell of alot fewer dives if those three rules were in place.
I'm not sure what nationality to blame this on, but some are worse than others. I played with a Yugoslavian in 1969 who was always flopping. It was so ridiculous that none of his temamates would even check to see how he was. He would writhe for a while, then slowly get up. Then he would wave his hand to show he was alright. The crowd would clap in approval. We would roll our eyes. If he had been laying there with his head completely seperated from his body, I still would have been suspicious. In the 1998 World Cup, someone noted that the US and Japan were the only teams that never had any floppers. Of course it might be said that their entire teams flopped, but that is another discussion.
An excellent reason for MLS to really clamp down and adopt the measures that Finnegan points to is that diving/flopping is one of the major complaints about soccer from the fans-of-other-sports. And We Were Cut could well be right in saying that the Italians are just as, if not more, accomplished in diving than the Latin Americans. I seem to remember, however, visiting a porn site once that called the Italian women Latinas. It may be that Latin connection.
Everyone better watch out with the Italian talk. Us Italian women have BIG tempers. You don't want to piss us off!!
I like the ideas, but how do you determine a "real" injury from a "fake" injury? And who makes that determination? Because if it's simply three strikes and you're out without any distinction between "real" and "fake" injuries, then Rusty Pierce (or Craig Waibel) can make it their mission of the game to get inside Landon Donovan's (or Taylor Twellman's) jockstrap, and give him three knocks throughout the game (without getting sent off, of course) to get him removed from the game. Or have three different guys get one card each to remove the other team's superstar. The big issue with diving is that in order to curtail it, you have to curtail the hacking by defenders as well. Diving in some cases is a forward's only means to protect themselves from dangerous defending and get the calls. Basically, the reffing has to improve, big-time, before we will be able to stop the diving and the excessive hacking. And I'm not going to trust any organization that lets Gus St. Silva inside the stadium without buying a ticket to implement this.
Ruiz(El Flopadillo), "Diving" Diego Serna, Guevara the towel boy, all of these are latin players and all are notorious divers. To say that Donovan is in their league of shame is laughable to say the least. But we can now add Walker to the list of obvious fakes as well after his Oscar winning performance on Sunday.
????? I'm Italian .... never had the latino/latina thing brought up. but maybe I'm visiting the wrong websites.
Amen to that. However, as an Italian American myself and a fan of Serie A, I would have to admit Italian player do flop when given the opportunity, but they do it much better then what we see in MLS, they have pretty much prefected it as an art. You just don't see too many triple rolls, or towels taking out eyes like you do here.