Fit to be tied...

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by retnicf, May 12, 2003.

  1. retnicf

    retnicf Member

    May 7, 2001
    Mount Vernon, NY
    I'm no statistician but I noticed that we've already seen 20 ties out of 48 games played (41.6%). In 2002 there were 44 ties in the 280 regular season games (15.7%).

    Coincidence or part of a trend?
     
  2. dcuinvermont

    dcuinvermont Member

    Sep 8, 2000
    Burlington VT
    I think we saw this same start to the season 1,2, or 3 years ago (can't remember which). 40 some odd percent of games were ties and there was a big stink in the media about it for awhile. It evened out as the year when by and all the big concern over all the ties went away.
     
  3. Scoey

    Scoey Member

    Oct 1, 1999
    Portland
    I'm not accusing you of complaining. I find that stat interesting, too. But I would find it HIGHLY ironic if there were a huge chorus of "too many ties, MLS sucks, boring, etc..." as a result of this thread. Nobody wanted the Shootout. Everybody said "Hey, ties are part of soccer, we can handle it." Well, now we're getting ties. Deal with it.

    That said...I think what's going with all the ties is that, simply, teams are sucking on offense, rather than some fundamental shift in philosophy. In the games I've seen (every ESPN and FSW game this year), the teams are just not clicking on offense. Nothing more, nothing less. Hopefully, this will change as the season progresses. The games I saw this weekend seemed to have better communication and understanding in the final 3rd than last week's games, so that's encouraging.

    I suppose there may be some fundamental shift toward defensive, but I don't think we'd really even know it, considering the offensive ineptitude evident so far. When teams get their attacking game together, and we still see ties and low scoring games predominate (to use Ty's new favorite word), then I'll revise my analysis.

    If that happens -- if this were an MLS season marked by tighter defensive tactics and a psuedo-catenaccio style -- would that be the end of the world? I don't necessarily think so. Tight, well-played defensive games can be highly entertaining, too. Maybe not for Joe Baguhdonuts, but Joe's unlikely to convert to soccer, anyway.
     
  4. mlsfan31

    mlsfan31 Member

    Nov 1, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree about teams not clicking. The games I watched so far are poor.

    This week they picked it up a bit so I hope MLS will look better on offence and the ties will be less. And also OT will get better with more golden goals.
     
  5. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we had one 0-0 tie all of last year.

    In 5 weeks so far - we've had 3.

    I have no problem with ties per se - I have a problem with boring ass soccer and a lack of goals.
     
  6. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    DC had at least three that I recall. Two in Chicago and one at RFK against KC.
     
  7. Etienne_72772

    Etienne_72772 Member+

    Oct 14, 1999
    I've got no problem with ties. There's something somewhat satisfying about a game where my team is down and ends up coming back to at least tie. Would I feel a whole lot better if they won? Sure--but there is some satisfaction in tying. Same for the flip side--there is something depressing about losing a lead and only ending up with a tie, when my team should have been able to beat the other--and in fact was leading at a certain point in the game. Would I feel a whole lot worse if they lost? You bet, but I still feel an emotional reaction in ties. It's not as if nothing happened in the game.

    What I'm starting not to like are 0-0 ties. But there's nothing intrinsically wrong about the sport because of it. I just want to see some improved offense.
     
  8. retnicf

    retnicf Member

    May 7, 2001
    Mount Vernon, NY
    I wonder if this could be the target of one of the Hirdt's statistical analyses on MLSNet.com? It would be interesting to see if ties are more common during certain parts of the year. I'd suspect that the defenses are more organized during the first months, with the offenses "warming up" as the summer progresses. But that's not based on any evidence.

    Oh, and I wasn't complaining, just observing.
     
  9. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    That's the because the defefense overall has been a lot better. In last few years, probably more than half of the goals are stupid goals, like result of turnover, intercepted back pass or lateral pass from defenders, non-existant marking. In 2000, just about every goal SJ gave up were the result of our defenders kick the ball to the other team.

    You have to give MLS defenders some credit. The quality of defense has improved, which I think is mostly due to contraction.
     
  10. alf

    alf Member+

    Jun 29, 1999
    Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    BAN ALL GOALKEEPERS!!!
     
  11. Mountainia

    Mountainia Member+

    Jun 19, 2002
    Section 207, Row 7
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. cafrine

    cafrine New Member

    Oct 13, 2002
    is GONE
    huh? so you say that MLS defenses are better, then contradict yourself by claiming half of goals come from defensive mistakes. if defensive mistakes were the cause of most MLS goals, then MLS teams' lack of offensive power is probably the cause of low-scoring games moreso than great defenses.
     
  13. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    This isn't a unique view. My bais against all things United is well known, but that has nothing to do with this opinion:

    Most bad offensive teams' recognize that ties will not get them anywhere in the long run, In the short run however (read: beginning of the season) points are points and two things become law: 1)two-thirds of a loss is better than a full loss and 2)we can hope for change later and get the 3's we need.

    The Shootout wasn't a bad device in and of itself. The problem was simply the scoring of it. The winner received a previously earned point, and the loser got nothing; thereby rediculously reducing the value of the game to 1 total point. The event itsself was exciting, the majority of fans that didn't post arrogant diatribes on bigsoccer were very into it, and SO's are much better than pks for a host of reasons.

    FIFA mandated that wins be worth an extra point some time ago to encourage offense. Teams should be penalized for an inability to win. No change is needed, a tie is its' own penalty. If the ties get to be too much...remember last year they did go away...then add the SO again and properly make it for the third point. Mexico's lower divisions do this already as do many other leagues. It isn't "Americanizing soccer", that's an unintelligent knee-jerk comment.

    Above all, keep the OT :10; make it :20, add a sub, or both if needed. Anything that lessens ties is a good thing.
     
  14. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    No, he said that defensive mistakes were the cause of goals in the past, but now those mistakes are fewer and the goals are fewer.
     
  15. Autogolazo

    Autogolazo BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 19, 2000
    Bombay Beach, CA
    Ties also can keep the wolves at bay for a little while (Jeffries and Hudson's stellar 0-0)

    While losses look that much worse (Hankie goes bye-bye).
     
  16. PezJunkie

    PezJunkie Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Independence, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks like 4 for last season. DC's 3 during the regular season and Columbus/New England in the playoffs.

    Only 7 in 2001.

    Still a valid point though...
     
  17. Its all due to the emergence of BUNKER BALL leaguewide It sucks.
     
  18. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DC's are not because of bunkerball. They just blow.

    Trust me. I checked.
     
  19. Godot22

    Godot22 New Member

    Jul 20, 1999
    Waukegan
    Chicago's lack of offensive production might be caused by the massive turnover in most creative positions--no Wolff, no Nowak, no Razov (for most of the season so far), no Marsch, whereas the defensive core has, if anything, improved thanks to the return of Armas. The attacking players may be still getting used to each other.

    Or maybe not.
     
  20. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I must have been thinking of something else - course I should also have gone back and checked the facts.
     
  21. Mountainia

    Mountainia Member+

    Jun 19, 2002
    Section 207, Row 7
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's true. DCU does not play bunker ball. They play possession soccer, but they just can't seem to shoot, or when they do, they can't shoot towards the goal. I've seen shots go out for throw-ins.

    I don't really wish for 0-0 ties. I wish someone on DC would make the keeper save a shot. I think Etcheverry leads in shots on goal. That makes no sense.

    We're really hurting opposing keepers save stats, too.
     
  22. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    Yeah, but we're keeping their GAA down...
     
  23. bordelais7

    bordelais7 Member

    May 13, 2003
    Centreville, VA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Didn't someone post that the average total goals per game this year so far is around 2.25, almost a full goal/game lower than the league averages for previous years? Less scoring = more ties.

    I really don't think it's due to an improvement in defensive play as much as an ineptitude in the attack thus far this year. Specifically in the midfield. Teams seem to be struggling to keep possession. To be fair, there WERE a lot of changes in lineups for this year, and hopefully it's just a matter of time before things start to "click". I think a lot of teams looked good last week though.

    I'm thinking by the end of the season, we'll see the goals/game back up around 3.0, and tied matches back down to around 20-25%.

    I think the most OBVIOUS solution is to not allow goalkeepers to use their hands, ever. Yeah.
     
  24. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    30 games, 70 goals. 2.33 goals/game.

    13 draws (43%), 3 scoreless (10%).

    By comparison, the EPL averaged 2.63 goals/game this year, with an even 1,000 goals scored in 380 matches.

    90 draws (23.6%), 21 scoreless (5.5%)

    I think the Metros last week became the first team to play the same starting XI two weeks in a row. The combination of injuries to key players and teams playing more conservatively on the road has affected team chemistry throughout the league.

    And yet, KC, the team with the most injuries up top (Wolff, Simutenkov, and Fabbro have all been out) has scored the most goals.

    Better yet, let all the players use their hands and have them throw it into the net. That's why Team Handball is such a popular Olympic sport...
     
  25. Rocket

    Rocket Member

    Aug 29, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scrap the offside law.
     

Share This Page