I went to the Burn's pick-out-your-seat shindig for season ticket holders over at Dragon Stadium today. Of course, since I'm going to be in general admission behind the goal with The Inferno, and since the bleachers haven't been built yet, there really wasn't much point in my going. However, I did, and it was interesting. They had the season ticket holder's initial purchase date on their respective order forms. Mine was January 26, 1996. My account rep told me that I could pretty much have any seat I wanted in whatever section I chose because of that -- if I were sitting in a reserved section. That's kind of cool. The bleachers are going to be ridiculously close to the field and to the goal. There's probably going to be maybe six feet between the bleachers and the goal. That's going to kick ass. And the rest of the other stands are also going to be similarly close to the field. I checked out the FieldTurf. You can tell that you're not on grass, but it feels almost like grass. According to my account rep, the Burn players like the field. However, I'll be interested to see how well they cover up the football markings. I looked closely at the field, and the endzones and the actual grid of the football field (the lines across the field every five yards) look as if they're different colored blades of grass, not green ones that have been painted white. Meanwhile, the hashmarks and the numbers on the field look as if they're painted on. The stadium itself is rather new, built in '99, and it's pretty nice. Most of it is bleacher seating, but they've got a section at the top of midfield with seatbacks and cupholders. There's a shop near the entrance that looks as if it sells mostly Southlake Carroll Dragons gear, where I believe the Burn will sell their gear on gamedays. The press box is rather high off the ground and looks pretty modern, so if cameras are placed on top, the view on TV will be quite good. Honestly, you could make a few changes (grass field, more seating, and maybe a few luxury boxes) and it would be a perfect MLS stadium. I'm really starting to warm up to this whole Dragon Stadium thing, and I think it has the potential to be a lot better home field than the Cotton Bowl was. Of course, a lot of people are fixated on the whole FieldTurf issue, and the no beer issue, and the permanent football marking issue, so they'll think it's the worst stadium in the history of MLS. But of course, those people are dopes.
Think Pontiac from Detroit, only it feels a hell of a lot farther to me. (Not as pretty a drive...if you can believe that.)
That, I think, is going to be the saving grace for the fans for this whole situation. I am looking forward to it now. I am thinking college-type atmosphere. At UT, as I imagine in my college stadiums, alcohol is not sold inside the stadium. You can tailgate all day - you just can't bring it in. Fine. College stadiums do not lack for atmosphere and hopefully we can create that type of thing at Dragon Stadium, if on a smaller scale. And once fans get at taste of that up-close action hopefully we can snowball this into a permanent stadium somewhere. The field is still a drag - but one easily overlooked if you just try. Watching the game - I notice the grid lines but when I remember the game- they don't enter the picture.
Assuming it will be the same type of temp bleacher that we have in Naperville, and situated in the same spot, then you are correct. The view is awesome from top to bottom and makes up for some of the other shortcomings. From our experience, I think the biggest problem will be the distance from old location to new. A large segment of fans will probably go to early games and then fade away. Even as a partial plan season ticket holder, I had tickets go unused. The key is building an audience close to the new place. what losses we had from the regulars that didn't consistently make the trek to Naperville was eventually replaced by people in or near Naperville that got on board. I was skeptical about Naperville, but honestly with a wider and better quality surface, I would be content with Cardinal stadium. IIRC you have a wider and better quality surface. Finally, the whole football line thing is over played. Would I prefer them not to be there? Of course. But honestly, I hardly noticed -- its worse on tv.
Dustin, did they specifically say they were going to try to cover up the markings or are you just guessing that they are going to try to? Andy
First let's have a picture of the field: http://www.ibiblio.org/footy/2003/0111_dragon/DragonStadium_006.jpg Everyone at the Burn that I've talked to has said that they're going to try and cover up the permanent football markings. Like I said, a lot of the football markings are just painted on (like the hashmarks and the numbers), so I would imagine that they could be removed, but some (like the five-yard lines that extend across the field) are actually different colored pieces of plastic. It also looked to me like the black endzones and sideline markings were also permanent, but I'm only 95% sure about that. I don't think that they'll have any problem covering up the permanent white lines. I'm a bit more skeptical about the black markings, but they say they can do it. Even assuming they're right, however, I'm pretty sure that you'll still be able to tell that there's something covered up, since I'm sure that the green paint will be a slightly different shade from the rest of the field. You'll be able to tell that there's a 533 square yard area at both ends of the field that are covered in green paint and that there's a green painted line every five yards between those two areas. And if that were the case, I guess I'd be OK with that. I guess they could also cut out those huge black areas, replace them with green pieces of FieldTurf and sew them in. Don't know how much that would cost, though. But in the end, if you really wanted to just have a "pristine" green field with no permanent markings, you'd probably have to install a brand new rug. But I doubt that Hunt Sports Group is dying to spend the money do that, though.
Re: Re: First-hand impressions of Dragon Stadium They got a Scholtz' Beer Garden in Southlake? Filled with TriDelts? Can you piss in the creek if you don't want to deal with the bathroom line at Schotz? I'm down with that.
I have another question. Are the goalposts removable? Surely it wouldn't cost that much to replace them with removable ones if they aren't.
Oh c'mon. It's heartwarming that they have your ticket purchase date on record. So now the playing surface isn't a credible issue? Or was it the souvenir stand that won you over? Yup, we're dopes and it's a fine MLS venue. If you have your head in the sand, you won't even see the football grid.
Well, everyone that I talked to said that the goalposts and the play clock would be removed by April. Take that for what it's worth.
Re: Re: First-hand impressions of Dragon Stadium Yes, it is. So when they send out the "free Lewinski" coupons in 20 years to everyone who was a season-ticket holder from the very beginning, I'll know that I'm not getting shorted. Reading. Is. Fundamental. Did I say that it wasn't a credible issue? No. Did I say that it's not a good reason in and of itself to think it's the worst stadium in the league? Yes. Actually, I was all giddy at the prospect of spending the entire 2003 in the aluminum bleachers.
Re: Re: Re: First-hand impressions of Dragon Stadium Now you did. But you originally said people who are fixated on those three issues are dopes. YOU made the connection that their fixation with those "issues" would mean they necessarily thought it was the worst MLS stadium. I read fine. Read your own post. You're trying to look on the bright side, and that's great. But playing on actual natural grass was one of the original promises of WC '94 and MLS. It was a statement of our credibility. Because it's a requirement for top level soccer. I shouldn't need to remind you that MLS left arguably the best field in the league for an artificial turf football field. We're not dopes for not "warming up to Dragon Stadium" because one of the sections has cupholders. So please don't roll your eyes. I wouldn't even respond to this if you didn't feel the need to be condescending on the subject.
Re: Re: Re: Re: First-hand impressions of Dragon Stadium You don't like those issues. I don't like those issues. I feel that Dragon Stadium can be a good MLS stadium despite those issues. At the very least, I don't think that it'll be the worst stadium in the league. However, this is BigSoccer. There'll be people who fixate on those issues as the reasons why Dragon Stadium, in their opinions, will be the worst stadium in the league. Despite the fact that it's about 70 years newer than the Cotton Bowl. Despite the fact that it'll be a much more intimate place to watch soccer. Despite the fact that the atmosphere will almost certainly be better. Despite the fact that it'll help the league improve its financials. All that's important in those people's minds is "No beer, no grass, permanent football markings, crap stadium." In fairness, that promise was made in the days when "artificial turf" was synonymous with "AstroTurf." Because in those days, it was. Things have changed a bit in the last 9-10 years. No, you don't need to remind me. I went to around 120 games there over the last seven years. You also don't need to remind me what kind of raging dump the Cotton Bowl was. You also don't need to remind me how easily the crowd could get lost in its expanses, despite the Burn's best efforts in downsizing it. You also don't need to remind me about the axe that got Tampa Bay and Miami and could've easily been dropped on the Burn. You don't need to remind me about all the reasons why I'll miss the Cotton Bowl. But you also don't need to remind me of all the reasons why I won't miss it, either. That section could have free filet mignon for all I care, because I won't be in it, and the perks in that section are not a reason why I'm "warming up to Dragon Stadium." And let's get something straight. When this move was first announced, I thought it was crap on toast. I was absolutely crushed by it. So when I say that I'm warming up to it, don't get the idea that I'm going to be a cheerleader for it. It is what it is. In the form that it's going to take in April, it's hardly going to be the ideal situation. It's just not going to depress me anymore, now that I'm starting to see the good things about it. But frankly, if you're going to fixate on the major shortcomings of the stadium to the exclusion of the things that can be a real positive, then yes, you're a dope. But if you're going to keep an open mind, look at those things as shortcomings, and give the Burn and its fans a chance to overcome them, then no, you're not a dope. You're just someone with the proper amount of skepticism.
Thanks El Jefe. You rule. I basically agree. And good luck of course. Not sure where I'd place myself on your dope-o-meter as characterized above, though. The Serenity Prayer phase is a goal I look forward to, when I'm through ranting, whining and moping about the topic. Sounds like you're post-serenity prayer. Incidentally, FieldTurf is better than FireTurf is better than Meadowlands '96 turf I suppose. But for soccer - and especially for MLS with its constantly challenged credibility - there's just Grass and Not Grass. The commitment to grass fields (didn't they pay to replace Giant Stadium's field for some of the season?) was a sacred covenant they made with soccer fans in this country. From that regard they're blowing it, and I do believe it's hard to (over)estimate the credibility blow of playing on a football field. Bob Bradley feels the same way I think. Poor guy.
My New Seats I went to see the stadium and was only going to go with the cheaper General Admission Voucher Tickets the Burn offer. However, after checking out the stadium, confirming with my season ticket rep that the goal posts were coming down and confirming they can be taken down after Friday night football games, and finding out from that same person that the Burn are going to have the field painted over with a fresh dose of green and that the football markings will now be chalk and can be rinsed off the field after games--soccer too, and finding out that the Club Seats are so damn comfortable and offer up such a great view, and the parking near the stadium for season ticket holders, and checking out the field which seems ok and a bit soft underfoot, and realizing there are a ton of great restaurants and shops outside the parking lot gates, and the location is so easy to get to at the end of HWY 114, and we actually have a DECENT scoreboard for a change--it can actually show color graphics and offer more the 20 characters, and how for 1/2 the cost of a nosebleed season ticket for the Stars I can two nice season seats with comfortable seats, cupholders yes, and way more leg room than the Cotton Bowl unless I bought the seats below me there, and so on.. So, yes this place is a great improvement for fans and should become a tough place for opposing teams to play in. GO BURN!!
Noah, No one down here is elated about the move, except Southlake ISD boardmembers. No one prefers Dragon Stadium to the Cotton Bowl, least of all the fans. We're just trying to make the best out of a bad situation. Stiff upper lip. Taking one for the league. Looking on the bright side of things. And as noted above, there are a few positives. So, we're looking ahead to what we have and not what we may have lost. And praying like hell this is only a 2 year gig.
And praying like hell this is only a 2 year gig. [/B][/QUOTE] Easy...give Dragon a chance. Maybe it won't be the answer, but maybe it might just turn out rather well. I've heard a lot of Fire posters' who do enjoy Naperville, as bad as it appears on TV. We'll know much more come April 12. Until then...