McSkillz, I am not sure your characterizations are correct. I am wondering if you have gone back and compared who criticized and defended Jill (and Pia, who if I recall correctly was pretty popular here on BS although my recollection could be wrong) to who is criticizing and defending Vlatko. I also am wondering if you have looked to see how many posters during the Olympics and since have praised Vlatko. I am wondering because my impressions have been (1) that very few posters have praised Vlatko recently (MRAD12 being the only exception I can think of), although a number of us have made guesses about why he may have made certain decisions and have said there are things we do not know about that suggest we do not have enough information to make a good evaluation, and (2) that most of those posters commented about Jill pretty much the same way. I know that with Jill, she had negative marks from me when she first started out as WNT coach, due to some things her team did at UCLA that I (rightly or wrongly) attributed to her (which I would characterize as very poor sportsmanship), but as the WNT progressed I became, if anything, a defender of her and particularly a defender in relation to the 2015 World Cup when some asserted she simply was lucky. Thus when you say that 13 out of 15 active members praise Vlatko, I wonder what you are reading because it seems different than what I am reading. And when you equate those who do not criticize Vlatko now with those who criticized Jill in the past, that seems different than what I recall. In fact, there are a number of posters here who are not criticizing Vlatko now that I could have predicted would be in that boat because they have had similar positions about WNT coaches in the past.
I will admit that I have a slight sem-personal beef toward Jill Ellis. I'll never forget that she did not choosing Casey Short for the 2019 WWC instead she chose Ali Krieger who hadn't played on the NT in a couple years before that. Casey was in better shape and in better form at that time. I know Casey's family as I pretty much talk to them at almost every Red Stars game. Many of us CRS fans took that diss not well.
cpthomas, just curious where do you stand on Vlatko? Maybe I am the only one or one of few here who want him to go a full cycle. Maybe the USWNT doesn't need an Xs and Os coach like Vlatko. Maybe they just need a Jill Ellis type to just throw the balls out at practice and just let them do their own thing.
I feel like I do not know enough to have a strong opinion on Vlatko one way or the other. As I have posted a number of times, I believe the WNT did as well as reasonably could be expected in the Olympics, being someone who believes that historic data are important and should be used at least as a check on subjective opinions. So overall, the results data do not suggest there should be a coaching change since the WNT won bronze -- and, regarding Ellis, they suggest she was a really good coach. I have my own guesses about why decisions were made during the Olympics, as I did about decisions that were made when Ellis was coach, but that is all they are, guesses. I am not inclined to criticize people based on guesses. Rather, I am more oriented towards win-loss-tie results. I also will add that my tendency always is to give the WNT coaches the benefit of the doubt and to try to look for a good reason why any of the WNT coaches might have decided to do what they did. It simply is not in my personal repertoire to believe that I have the expertise or knowledge that they do and that I therefore am in a position to make better judgments than them.
My critique with Jill Ellis when she was at UCLA is with all that talent (Leroux, Lauren Cheney, etc.) never won a NCAA Championship. She always got beat by Anson Dorrance or Randy Waldrum.
One more last comment on this thread as no one is changing anyone's mind. As a huge fan of the NWSL (I believe I'm becoming a bigger fan of NWSL than the USWNT), I wish Jill Ellis much luck and success in San Diego with the new NWSL team. I'm actually pleased she chose Casey Stoney as her first coach. Next season I hope to make an away trip to California when the Red Stars play there.
I'm hoping her commendable stint at ManUnited wasn't just a fluke because I would love to envision her as the next USWNT coach.
Losing to Canada after 2 decades of being unbeaten and how we played the entire tournament was just unacceptable. And if we only go by win-loss-tie results then Greg Ryan would be the best coach this team has ever had. But you know thats not the case. And people now a days get so caught up in Data. Sometimes soccer is just soccer. You just have to watch the game and not focus on data. Because if data is what wins championships then France would have so many trophies by now because based on the "data" and "statistics" they have been the most dominent team of the decade.
Vlatko's lineup is poor. His midfield cannot string thre passes together yet he keeps trotting out the slow Horan and the dead average Sullivan. Rose needs dynamic players to play with. Sit the whining Horan down next to the now too slow Rapinoe.
It takes a LOT more than simply fielding bad teams and making bad sub decisions and losing matches for US Soccer to decide to fire a coach. I don't suppose we could frame him for some serial murders or cruelty to animals or bad taste in dress or poor politics or some such. It might be the only way he loses his position of power. I really think we are stuck with him through the next WWC. Just like we are stuck with Gregg on the men's side.
That looks like one of my posts after I am tired. I think that if we build around anybody, except maybe a goalkeeper, it is a mistake. We need to build a deep rotation and then, for each match or tournament, pick the best available 23 and then and only then decide, with a few constraints, what formation/system they will play.
I think Rose is better than Horan. In fact, ESPN call Horan the WORST PLAYER on the pitch today for both teams. https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog-th...y-spainmust-improve-midfield-before-world-cup WORST: Lindsey Horan, USWNT Twice gave the ball away in dangerous positions in the U.S.' defensive third and struggled to find the game alongside the rest of the U.S. midfield. Rose can break a defense down and score. Horan is too slow and methodical for that. She does well at Lyon because her team is dominant and she doesn't have to do a lot of box to box or defensive work. She is not athletic enough to play alongside Rose. I don't think Rose is necessarily a 90 minute player for us though either. She disappeared in these two matches.
If Rose can break down a defence and score, today would have been a pretty good day to to showcase that skillset.
there is a tendency to reduce this ream to an individual. its a team. An unbalanced midfield will impact the whole team. no one player is the solution imo
My point is Rose needs help to allow her to do this. Horan slows the game down when Rose, Smith, Pugh, Rodman want to play fast. Rose cannot play fast when Sullivan is not a possession presence and Horan plays so slow. Rose can break a defense down on the fly. We rarely fly, and never do when Horan gets the ball.
Team vs individual is honestly a good encapsulation of the issue with the USWNT on multiple levels. Often, the team doesn't play like a team - they play like a bunch of usually-good players on the field at the same time. When the team is actually clicking together well and looking like an actual team, they're fine; when they're not, they lose focus and just look lost and uninspired.
Nobody today looked ready to play. Had Rose shown some of that attacking prowess maybe Smith wouldn’t have been doubled and tripled. Pugh wasn’t there. Rodman might as well not have been. For all her supposed speed she seemed incapable of playing defence. Even Horan made and won more challenges than she did. I wouldn’t worry too much about Sullivan. She didn’t show anything and likely won’t make the squad when injured players come back. Coffey did more in her few minutes than she did.
Did you miss the Concacaf press conference where he said Sullivan will be playing in 4 World Cups? He thinks she is Ertz 2.0, or at least he is trying to convince himself of that. There are likley no reinforcements in the midfield coming. Sam Mewis has a degenerative knee issue and has not played a game since the Olympics. For all we know she may never play again. Ertz was not even mentioned by Vlatko as one of the missing 15 players. So I suspect she has no plans to play for the national team again. We will get Cat, Morgan, Pugh back, along with some defenders. Horan is slow and plays slow. The US hallmark of success has been to play fast. Both Horan and Vlatko have zero urgency. Go put Horan's name in the twitter search bar. She is on blast by many. And, as ESPN said, she was the worst player on the pitch.
USWNT history doesn't suggest that's the case, at least on the women's side. Through 2023, yes. We're less than a year away from the tournament. But, I think the team's performance in 2023 will be a major factor on whether he stays after that.