Fire Richie "Can't Win" Williams NOW!

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by Cannons, Sep 10, 2023.

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  1. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Yeah, I wish, but I'm afraid it's pretty unlikely.

    Like the whole set of Bilello/Kraft decisions over the last 6 weeks, I think this one isn't well thought out either.

    Peay and Santos have no MLS or comparable experience - and now that they've cleared out the two ex-MLS player coaches, neither does anyone else. And, as an innocent victim/by-product, how do you think the Revs II players feel about getting stripped of their staff after an excellent season with high playoff hopes?

    We may not have liked Williams game-management, but do we really thing Peay is equipped to match wits with experienced MLS coaches in strategy and personnel? Management is running out of names in the internal Rolodex and clearly don't have any other ideas.

    FWIW, I think they should have reached out to Nicol - or even Heaps, to help steady the ship (actually, I think they should have been talking to potential permanent coaches or director-of-soccer and worked to be ready for permanent hires).
     
  2. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with both you and Bob ... but that last line is the problem.
     
  3. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mike Sorber!
     
  4. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would you take this job knowing RW is still with the organization? Not me. This late in the season pickings are slim as far as coaches go. Unless someone is given a contact for next year as well they have to go within the organization or some sort of mercenary like hire. As far as matching wits RW was a half wit and failure at ever coaching job he had. Peahy is a former MLS and USL player and is more than experienced on the coaching side coaching college, US youth National teams and USL. I would feel more confident with Shalrie or Van den Bergh but I am fine with him over RW.
     
  5. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Believe me, I was NOT suggesting RW instead of Peay - more suggesting that we've exchanged one problem (guy that players wouldn't play for) for another (coach with no MLS experience).

    I felt like they should have gone outside of the organization (Nicol, Heaps, Savarese, Fraser, ...) - and maybe they tried, but even if Peay does well, between R1 and R2, they have a razor-thin staff now
     
  6. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least with this decision, the Revs FO has reverted back to their old methodology of being reactive instead of proactive.
     
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  7. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There was one report suggesting the Revs were already close to finding Bruce's permanent replacement. So maybe Peay just gets them through the COL game, then new guy comes in and Peay and Santos return to R2 for their playoff run.
     
  8. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd invite you to re-read my post. I know the author and I asked him directly; he wasn't targeting RW in anyway in that post. How did you conclude it was unfair to Ritchie? Again, I'll blame the author. Maybe I should have said, "The irony is that OSTENSIBLY RW Won?" Anyway, the post was critical (although "critical" seems overly dramatic) of MLS and the REVs role in achieving outcome 1 in your list. But taking your list point by point, mostly in an attempt to clarify where we agree:

    1) The outcome very much seems to NOT be what the accuser intended.
    2) a. Yes RW will pay as big a price as anyone. But I really wonder if he gamed this out at all in his head. His only real end-game, to me, was a big fat check from MLS/Krafts that took care of him for life. I think it was predictable that other owners would not look on him favorably for head coaching positions after this. I think it is predictable that other head coaches will consider his publicly displayed betrayal of his boss should they consider him for their staffs. He should have been aware of his relationship with the players and other assistants. Maybe he was impulsive and didn't game it out? And __IF__ he was horribly abused then, yes, it is an unfair aspect of making these complaints.
    2)b. Be careful, this is one of the MOST common OVERT displays of prejudice that wide swathes of the population perform. Strangely with near, but not total, impunity. You don't have any right to decide when BA should retire. Despite my thoughts on impunity, I think MLS or the REVs would have been rightfully crucified if they had displayed age-ist reasoning like that.
    3) I think this one is the exact point I was making? I pointed to the radio show that someone posted in one of these BA/RW related threads. The hosts correctly predicted that if MLS/Revolution did not supply some real facts the public would fill in the blanks with a negative-toward-RW storyline.
    4) I'm not trying to be a d*ck, truly. Factor into what? I don't like that RW's actions resulted in BA's departure and that there was, as I see it, almost no positive result. The REVs have won like once in 6 games, we've lost the leader of probably the best REV era, RW is not really better off and we fans are not better off, Shalrie, and Van Der Bergh lost their jobs, an Apple TV employee got suspended. I may skew toward some RW negativity but I don't think the post took a swipe at him.

    It is a great insight that, with good advisors, RW might have chosen to politely reject the offer of interim head coach.

    And lastly, THE CANCER CELLS ARE STILL HERE!!!!!
     
  9. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It bears repeating.
     
  10. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  11. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Okay, sorry if I mis-attributed.
     
  12. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Listening to the press conference, the smugness of Bilello non-answering virtually everything that came his way reminded me of how I've felt at all the season-ticketholder events with this management team. From Feldman, to Bilello, to Burns ... they have always been so politely and condescendingly dismissive of any questioning of the team or management. I've often stepped up to the mike at those events and those 3 in particular always left me feeling patronized. Arena, OTOH (like Nicol and Heaps - and even Friedel, before him), always fielded questions in an enthusiastic, humorous and considered way, like he didn't see himself above fans, as those others clearly seem to.
     
  13. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  14. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    Jaka Catanese put together a nice article for the blazing musket on where things stand. I recommend reading it to anyone who's following along at home

    There is a lot there, but I think one of the big takeaways is that this whole fiasco clearly shows issues within the club above the coaching level that need to be addressed

    https://www.theblazingmusket.com/p/biggest-questions-remaining-from
     
  15. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #40 rkane1226, Sep 13, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
    I should go watch TV... I liked the article but have a few points/questions:

    1. Who does Kaylyn Kyle really work for? I thought she worked for AppleTV but the article says she opened up MLS, her employer, to countersuit (by Arena).
    2. On the assumption that Arena's resignation was accompanied by a negotiated settlement and NDA, I doubt that MLS/Krafts have to fear a countersuit. AppleTV might.
    3. Relative to, "Did the Revs receive any internal complaints against Bruce?"
    I think many former players and assistants have gone on the record that BA has a harsh pattern of verbal behavior and that was for many of them a grind. Most of them are saying that in the context of how much they support him, how loyal they have found him over the years, and, in player's cases, how much of a "players coach" he is.
    4. Ritchie fought with Shalrie (or vice versa?). The many mentions in the article about what internal REV/MLS paper trail exists regarding Bruce cuts both ways. What's the paper trail on Ritchie? There may be reasons beyond Bruce that all of that is under lock and key.
    5. I can't quite tell if the article is trying to say that MLS/Revs top priority is/should be/was protecting the accuser (RW). I may have less experience than the author but I've been in the room with HR about claims against employees. The NUMERO UNO priority is always the company.
     
  16. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: "Having been a soccer player at MIT doesn't qualify one to manage a professional soccer team - and over 10 years of failure to even find a location for a stadium should have made the Krafts realize that."
    Truer words have never been spoken!
     
  17. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whoa whoa whoa ... he also ran the Pro Shop! If that doesn't show he can run a full soccer organization, I don't know what does!

    Of course, during his tenure at the Pro Shop, there were never any Revs items available for sale during the Christmas Holidays, and quite a few years, there were no Revs jerseys available for sale at the start of the season. But other than that, they sold a lot of Patriots gear!
     
  18. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jake did a great job with this. He's got some personal opinions interjected with what we actually do know, which makes it a fair post IMHO. This quote hits me perfectly, because we've seen it on social media and even here ..
     
  19. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I re-listened to the press conference (I'm a glutton for punishment) and the evasiveness is so blatant.

    Tara Sullivan recounts pretty much all of the individual personnel moves over the last week and asks for some explanation behind the moves. Bilello responds by saying [quoting from memory] "if you're talking about the investigation, then I can't comment about the investigation. ..." and goes on to babble for a minute or two longer, without giving any rationale for anything.

    Someone later asks why Shalrie and VDB were let go - Onalfo responds by saying that all the decisions were made with the goal of helping the team win.

    So, firing Shalrie is going to help the team win?

    The arrogance is right out of the Belichick playbook, but without the respect that Belichick has earned and they haven't.

    Onalfo may be arrogant, but also may be good at his job. Bilello is arrogant (unless there's a better term for talking about being empathetic, while not being empathetic) and IMO pretty useless at his job.

    The Krafts have long acted as though longevity = competence and, because of that, they stuck with Burns way too long. Now we're seeing the same with Bilello (what are his 'wins' exactly?).
     
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  20. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Williams and Arena go way back.
     
  21. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Yes, which is why I think it makes sense when Frank Dell'Apa reports that it wasn't RW that filed the complaint. I'm guessing it was someone who wasn't generally involved in their interactions, because it seems like Williams had long ago decided to live with Bruce-being-Bruce.
     
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  22. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd bet if this was May or June we may be reading about a different coach taking over. This late in the game, the safe bet is to go with what you and the players already know
     
  23. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For what it's worth, if it was a coach who dropped a dime on Bruce, there aren't many candidates other than Richie. They most likely wouldn't have fired Shalrie or VDB if it was one of them. That pretty much leaves Richie and Kevin Hitchcock. I can't see Kevin being the guy.

    Another thought, since his name has been among the suspects: maybe Curt was the sole instigator?
     
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  24. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arena resigning certainly opens up opportunities for Curt. Not that I am saying Curt is motivated by opportunities that open up depending on his actions. Not everyone is that calculating and led by material self-interest. Perhaps Curt is one of that small minority........:cautious:
     
  25. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    My guess is that it wasn't a coach - maybe a staffer or an administrator overhead something and thought, wow, this kind of stuff isn't okay and 'see something - say something', ...
     
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