Trying to figure out who the hell took the chance and deserved to come back from the ---- show that was march. Luna for sure, anyone else? November was definitely a better window.
What would you prefer? The hypocrisy of giving him a free pass for sucking? Seems like you guys were criticizing that take back in the fall when Poch came out and fell flat on his face in multiple windows. What is wrong with them melting down over him being ---? Isn't that just consistency? We want a better coach than Bradley? They hire a better coach, but he performs like total ---, so they criticize it. Seems to me like it would be far worse if this part of the fan base sat on their hands and kept their mouths shut when he was/is sucking, but would harass Berhalter when he sucked right? I don't really understand your point, like, AT ALL. Is it just they got what they wanted, and they're still not happy. Sure, but that doesn't change any of the facts on the ground. Berhalter sucked, and was ---- canned, Poch is sucking, and they want to ---- can him too. That sounds like fan consistency to me.
Meh, not really. There was and is a ton of evidence that not only was what you mentioned, truisms (generational transition, previous coach being total ---), but also that the US competitive advantage that existed in women's soccer from 1991-2015 at the senior level began breaking down 15ish years ago completely at the youth level, which presaged some pretty ---- performances at: '16 Olympics '21 Olympics '23 World Cup She took over a team that was transitioning AND no longer better than all comers like the US had been 1991-2004 or thereabouts, and 2011-2015. By and large, the US women are just one of many nations these days that are really good including England, Spain, France, Australia, Germany, Brazil when they are on etc. They are no longer in a tier of 1, and I'd argue that these days, they aren't the best team period, they are probably somewhere between 2nd and 4th. I felt the OIympic performance was a significant over-performance and a credit to Emma and her players alike.
It may no longer be better than all comers but the comparative talent level is nowhere near what the US is facing.
It's consistency of a type. The one that never learns. The (European-based) players can never be at fault for these folks. It's always 100% the coach. It's also inconsistency, because many of them were calling for people to not have guaranteed spots, for there to be real competition and consequences for poor play. That the team had gotten too comfortable. And now they are mad that Josh Sargent is kept home? C'mon.
That sounds like the players aren't as good as everyone takes them out to be. "Best generation ever". First it was Berhalter because he just coached in MLS. Now Pochetino, a coach fan base wanted. Both are sucking. There is a common denominator. The player pool.
Poch should call up one guy from college (eg Jordan Morris) and one guy from the second division (eg Miguel Ibarra)...
Has Poch been coaching well and just being let down the by player pool? Didn't the same player pool win four trophies under Berhalter? Are Mexico fans just saying our players are better than the rest of the region to gaslight us? That's a new one because historically they just say our players are s***...
They certainly did win Nations League and even Gold Cup with an all MLS squad. Yet the USMNT fan base said anyone could do that with this talent pool we had lol. They also discredit all the trophies Berhalter got because he faced the "worst Mexico EVER" (they probably started following CONCACAF in 2021 to even say that).
Numerous people have said this is the worst Mexico ever, including Mexico fans... I think both Seb Salazar and Herc Gomez have said it too. Wait so if the USMNT fan base said that, doesn't it make sense that they're not too impressed by Poch taking the same talent pool and finishing fourth losing not even to "worst Mexico ever" but to Panama and Canada?
Marsch is actually trying to improve his player pool a novel concept 1926308334505689531 is not a valid tweet id 1925709427820183809 is not a valid tweet id 1926368295256490126 is not a valid tweet id
There have been worse Mexico. Chepo De La Torre had a worse team than this one. Add the ones that lost at the Azteca. I guess they forgot about those or started watching in 2021. Fans weren't too impressed when Berhalter did it. Always complaining even when we would win trophies. That's why they wanted him gone after the WC and were asking for an elite coach to take us to that "next level". We got what they asked for. Now we aren't even winning AT ALL. Aguirre was hired around the same time as Pochetino. If Mexico is "the worst ever" how did he manage to course correct them in the same time period Pochetino has had? So Mexico is now not the "worst ever" now that Berhalter is gone or is that narrative still active?
I think this argument would be more credible if it wasn't patently obvious he made absolutely absurd mistakes in the March window, had, actually, spent a crap ton of time doing absolute non-sense that had ---- all to do with the USMNT, and put zero effort seemingly into the gig. Now I hear the argument that, "what did you expect, big time coaches usually treat these gigs as holiday's. Well, some of them do. Arena didn't, Hiddink didn't, history says sometimes the dice roll comes out 7 and 11 and sometimes it comes out 2 or 3 or 12. At this juncture do the fans blame the players? I don't know, but I'd argue that even amongst the element trashing the ---- out of Poch right now, there is an ever-present degree of disgust with the players as well which you can see from how the Pulisic news is going down.
I think the players are coasting and our coach is not terribly motivated, and its obvious he saw this as a bit of an interesting holiday, he just wasn't expecting the players to be as soft and chicken ---- as some of them clearly are. I don't think it's the players, I think it's all of it. FTR, I've been mentioning the inability of the players to produce strong windows for half a decade. They simply can't produce 3 consecutive strong performances together, often even just 2, the coaches have been part of it, the players clearly are part of it too.
Recognizing the actual issues with the team and the complete lack of consistent logic with several critical arguments does not require Pochettino to be perfect in his decisions. If you think we had a terrible March because of Pochettino's mistakes, you're trying too hard to put everything on him. Good or bad, it's overwhelmingly the players. And particularly, if we're talking effort and fight, it's the players. The reality is that a lot of these guys aren't fighters by nature (or nurture), and several of the ones that are fighters seem not to care. And can't be because Pochettino set a bad example, because this was an issue before he was even hired and didn't get better and then crater -- it's been that way for a while. I do agree that Poch is baffled by the current mindset of the team. I don't think he's ever had to deal with this, especially when it manifests in players that aren't exactly at the top of the totem. More and more I think it was smart that the back of Berhalter's roster was older, more experienced, grateful, try hard guys at the World Cup rather than what he started to bring together post-World Cup.
I think there was some idea from Edgar and others like him that Berhalter was the root of all our problems and what this group needed was a big name European coach. And now that we have one the new complaint is he’s completely beholden to MLS and why aren’t we calling up more players from Europe (which they also complained about with Berhalter last cycle). Pochettino is still very early in his tenure to really pass judgement. This is someone who has not spent that much time with the team yet and has also never been an international coach. He may very well fall on his face, but it’s too early to tell. The main complaint against him is that he’s not really into dual national recruiting and there seems to be a new completely asinine idea that he’s somehow in the pocket of MLS and Don Garber. Mostly because he seems to rate MLS higher than they do. I think there’s an open question in terms of his investment in the job. But that’s always been the risk of a foreign hire. As many have said. But I think the jury is still out on that front. In the end the coaching is only going to make so much of a difference as I’ve always said. The limiting factor is always the quality of the player pool. And we’ve got a good but imperfect pool. My position on Pochettino has been let’s wait and see till after the Gold Cup. Which is the first time he’s able to spend lots of time with the team.
Is Arena a big name coach? I think he’s the best US coach ever but that’s different from being a big name coach and his circumstances are not at all comparable with Pochettino.
It is a bit odd considering these guys all play in Europe for the most part where the supposed argument is that things are more cutthroat and you aren’t able to get away with this sort of stuff. In theory. There was something to the idea of good culture guys like Roldan, Arriola, etc at the end of the roster.
It makes a lot more sense in a country with only 11 professional soccer clubs, 8 of which would struggle in EFL League Two and no youth program or college system.
Also.....................the notion that Poch hasn't been expanding his pool is silly. How many uncapped players has he called up in the last 6 months? A bunch. Downs, Berhalter, Sulliivan, Freeman etc. in this camp. Of course Marsch is expanding his pool. So are we. So is everyone. Also #2. Everybody who follows this program knows Poch isn't getting fired regardless of what happens at the Gold Cup. Also #3: THe idea that Poch doesn't know what he's doing because he's not calling in Richie Ledezma is really silly. A guy that just left Europe for Liga MX. He'll join Cade Cowell there. Another guy not good enough for the USMNT. There's this loop on twitter in which this same group of posters whip themselves into a frenzy about a certain guy not getting a callup. And I'm sitting there thinking............really? You're this invested in Richie Ledezma getting a callup? To do what? Do you watch PSV? He was available to the world on a free transfer and is going to Liga MX. Poch has forgotten more about the sport this morning than all of those twitter guys will know combined in their entire lives.
Meh. With so many players out in March, I had no idea if we'd win a fourth or not. No Pepi, no Tillman, no Dest, 5 to 6 out of 10 field players were first choice guys, I still expected a win in the SF, but I didn't have a clue how they'd perform.....I think all of us have come to terms with the fact that there is something fundamentally wrong with the players in terms of motivation, some of it can be youth, but it can't be all youth that explains why they couldn't string together 1 great window in '21-'22 from start to finish, or that after June of '23, they never put together a window again that was uniformly strong, that's definitely on the players, consistency is consistency. But you also have to wonder about motivation and how effective Berhalter was at it (zero in my view, his HT and pre game talks leaked, or shown to the fans were beyond cringe), and I can't speak to Poch, but if he's about as committed to communicating with I Show Speed, as he is to the most talented right back we've ever had, that's a problem. And then there's the plan against Panama, and the lineup and the decisions. I think there's tons of room for criticizing the players. Whether under Berhalter, or under Poch, they have not produced a strong window, start to finish, period post WC (Poch's November '24 might be close, certainly results wise). Eventually you just have to perform. But both Berhalter and Poch have not been able to bring out their best, period, in the biggest moments, they can't skate on that, just as the players can't. Thirdly, I don't think it's possible to argue that Poch's approach to the Panama game, the lineup, or the substitutions, are in any way the sign of a guy who had any clue whatsoever about the player pool, Panama, or how to generate performances and results against such a team. In terms of on US soil performance against a Concacrap opponent, it was right up there with the near draw with T&T in November '23, one could mention Panama in '24, but until the red card, and even after for a while, the team was actually kind of performing, that Panama set up and approach was just fundamentally horrible, on any evaluative level. You simply cannot make the decisions he made in terms of lineup, and subs, if you are doing your best to generate a result and the strongest possible performance. The decisions he made in terms of lineup and subs were the decisions of a man who couldn't be bothered to watch tape, look at players, and then produce the smartest approach possible to defeat Panama. Amongst the fan base, whatever argument your making, and against this element of the media as well, you're simply fighting the last war. The fans are disgusted with the team, the fed, all of it, high prices and ---- performances have lead to empty stadiums. The media had a problem with Berhalter for good reason, they have a problem with Poch for good reason, and yeah, they have a problem with the players too. I can see your argument, and understand the nuance your presenting, but I still think you're one step shy. I think it's pretty clear that it's all of it, I don't think the coaching and management is good enough, and I think the players are disengaged and uncommitted, and yeah, flawed too, and yeah, probably tired as well. If there ever was an all of it situation, it's this. But I also think there absolutely coaches out there that could have gotten much better performances out of these guys since Fall '23, how much better? That's open to interpretation, but I have little doubt that there could be better results, if we had an engaged coach who was as skilled as high end coaches like Poch can be, and as talented a motivator as others can be. We don't have that guy as a coach, and as a result, the lack of intensity and motivation from the coach, along with the flaws and lack of motivation from the players is producing garbage results and performances (I could deal with losses like Panama more, if I saw good, unlucky performances, but we're not even seeing that).
In US soccer when he came in, he was the flagship guy of the country, took DC United to 3 straight titles, all that. He's not a big name international coach obviously, but in our circle, he was the best of the best and obviously so, dominating college soccer and MLS alike. But yeah, if you look at the international game, outside of the US, you have club coach big name dudes who clearly just took a holiday while coaching an international side, and other coaches who really, really tried to dominate at the international level as they had as club coaches. We had no way of knowing how motivated Poch would be. His rep hadn't gone into the toilet, even if his high points were a few years earlier, he'd been successful for years, the question was: why is he doing this, would he take it seriously, try to produce the best US international results ever on the worlds stage, or was he going on holiday in the middle of his club career as a coach? That's the thing that I find so odd, on the one hand, I cannot see, how on earth a guy with his options would take this gig? He could be hired for nearly any CL caliber team in the world in the big 5 leagues, but he's taking us on? He must be serious right? Why would he walk away from that club career. My only concern was that, if he passed on England, rumored to be interested, did he pass because he wanted to relax and didn't want to deal with their annoying press, or did he pass because he liked the challenge here more? I couldn't figure it out. Now I wonder if its just burn out, he needed a break, and saw this as an opportunity, because its quite clear that he is not fully engaged, or has not been fully engaged. Maybe at this point, after the crap performance in March, he is beginning to realize that it won't be only the players that are tarred if we ---- our pants in June of '26. His rep will take a massive hit. Hopefully we see some evidence this window, that he's actually taking this seriously, but I'm skeptical, everything I've seen to this point, is a guy that's doing his job with the energy commensurate of a club coach who knows he has months and months between games that he has to worry about: essentially going on holiday. I hope I'm wrong.
I think he wanted a break from the club game. His last two jobs were at places that were both a mess when he was there. At PSG he had a team with Messi, Neymar, and Mbappe that wasn’t properly structured and with a front three that refused to play defense. I don’t think it’s a mistake PSG is doing better now they have moved to a team that makes sense it terms of how it’s setup. Similarly he went to Chelsea right at the peak of all the worst parts of the Todd Boehly era (as they seem to have calmed down a bit this season). So after those two experiences it’s not crazy he’d want to take a step back, reassess, try something different, etc. Going to Man U for instance is another spot that would be a complete mess. And I don’t think anything was open in the foreseeable future he saw as a good fit.
You believe the Mexico team that spanked the US 4-2 to win GC2011 was worse than this current generation? Really?