Fire Pochettino Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by wixson7, Aug 14, 2024.

  1. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Canadian soccer scene is very similar to the US one.

    As I suggested before, I'm not sure that someone who has only played and managed in Argentina, Spain, France and England understands that US managers have managed the nats from A-Z, not just on the field.

    For instance, as Belgian coach did Roberto Martinez try and recruit dual nats and call players every 5 minutes to ask how they are feeling? I can't remember Fabio Capello at England doing anything other than scouting matches, picking a squad and coaching games, at least not publicly, and he barely spoke to the press between games.
     
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  2. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean part of it I think is the chip on his shoulder from not getting the US job. The other is he’s not a big time foreign coach in the way Pochettino is and he’s trying to prove himself still after Leeds. And also not everyone foreign coach is the same, it’s just a risk you run.
     
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  3. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At this time into Berhalter’s tenure we were still waiting around for him to finish coaching his middling MLS club, whilst old man Sarachan kept his seat warm?

    Or were we just entering that interminable idiotic period where he was determined to build the team around his World Class Regista way past it Bradley, wait no Will Trappppp, wait no Jackson… Yueill is it? Can’t really remember that guys name, does he even play soccer ball anymore?

    Poch all day everyday.
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I vaguely remember, it's such a long time ago.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    There was that period circa 2019 in which the old guard wasn't out the door, the supposedly in-their-prime players weren't good enough, and the young generation hadn't yet fully emerged. So we look back at those rosters the year before the COVID shutdown and think "what the hell was Berhalter doing?" Like the Nations League roster in November of 2019. But it was as much a systemic failure as it was Berhalter.

    Its like the #6 position for that 2019 Nations League roster. Jackson Yueill, Will Trapp, and Alfredo Morales.

    Who did people want? Adams was out hurt. Acosta was in poor form after his injury/funk.

    You look now at who people wanted, and it's a little bit of a joke. They didn't develop either.

    Berhalter flipped the script after the COVID shutdown. For instance, he called up Johnny Cardoso. At the time of his first callup, Johnny had played one first team soccer game. Some USSF scout did a helluva job on that one.

    It's like.............................Pochettino can't conjure up an elite international-caliber goalkeeper. You can't go buy one like in club soccer. At forward he started the 2nd leading scorer on the 13th best team in the English Championship. You know? Why is it a surprise whenever Josh Sargent struggles to score at the international level? He plays for Norwich; not AC Milan.
     
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  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    We are 14 months to the World Cup, so actually we were entering WCQ having won multiple continental trophies.

    I think Pochettino is a better coach than Berhalter, but the fact that Pochettino is struggling to get this team to function on any level should put a lie to the idea that Berhalter was a bumbling idiot holding us back and anyone would come in and solve it.

    Multiple posters, in fact, argued it would take no time at all, and that a coach really needs no time with a new team.

    So we're in a place were:
    • Berhalter sucks and Poch is awesome
    • The talent is miles ahead of anything we've ever had, to the point that if Berhalter would just get out of the way, they'd be world beaters
    • Coaches come in a month before the World Cup and go on semis runs -- you don't need time
    .... and the results and play are poor. Something's off about that, but I can't put my finger on it.
     
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  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Eh. This board is very reactive to the last result we saw.

    Come out and beat Turkey in the next friendly, and people will be talking about us advancing far at the World Cup again. They'll be singing Poch's praises.

    It would be very USMNT-like to beat Turkey 3-0 after suffering against Panama.

    I always come back to this. Pochettino had SPURS in the final of the Champions League. Finished 2nd in the Premier League. SPURS!!!! 2nd in the Premier League. SPURS!!

    Don't tell me he isn't a good coach. SPURS!!!

    Maybe he's not an international coach. That's a whole different ballgame.
     
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  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm pretty consistent, but I don't think you actually read other people's posts or try to differentiate anyone "Not-Clint."

    For example, I think Poch is a very good coach. Nothing in what I've said even really implies I think he's a crappy coach. I think coaches have less impact than others.

    And I think there's something wrong in terms of a cultural malaise that I don't think has much to do with him, but that he's clearly struggling to fix even though he's known as a culture guy. Sometimes, there's nothing a coach can do. I don't know how we, outside of the locker room, would have any hope of knowing.

    And I think the team is very talented. I just find a wild disconnect between people's Badge FC evaluations and what I can see on the field and what we see on results.

    If you want to say:

    Great Talent + Great Coach + Shitty Effort Level = Mediocre to Poor Results


    Then I'm not entirely sure I agree but at least the math checks out.

    But if you want to say:

    Great Talent + Great Coach = Mediocre to Poor Results

    That doesn't make any sense.

    If you want to say:

    Great Talent + Shitty Coach = Mediocre to Poor Results

    Then the math checks out, but at least address that we've changed coaches and got one of the most respected in the World.

    Personally, I think it is:

    Good Talent but the depth is wildly overrated + Lacking in Key Positions + Tons of Injuries + Something wrong with effort + Great coach who might not be able to influence much in a national team setting = Mediocre to Poor Results

    What do you think it is? The results are undeniable -- it's been a year and two coaches.
     
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #909 Clint Eastwood, May 16, 2025
    Last edited: May 16, 2025
    Who said I was replying to you? I have about half the board on ignore anyway. So no, I'm not reading most people's posts. :)

    The thing with Pochettino is he's never coached international soccer before. If you don't have a goalkeeper or a backup left back or a #9 that you want at a big club (like the ones he's coached), you go out and buy one. We can't say "well, he should develop one." An international manager has very little time with his players.

    I'm of the opinion that we have to give Pochettino actual time to figure these things out. He's had very few camps with some key players. And no camps with others like Dest and Balogun.

    If people were expecting Pochettino to come in and turn this group of players into a top 10 team in the world right away, then they were living in a delusion. They were part of that vast conspiracy that it was Berhalter who was holding the program back. That's not the talent level of the pool. Its a talented pool. In my opinion, the most talented we've had 1 to 50. But that still doesn't make us a top 10 team in the World. Cuz #10 is Germany in the FIFA rankings, and we ain't Germany. They've won World Cups. Plural #9 is Italy, and we're not Italy. They've won World Cups. Plural.

    Our youth teams are doing well. They advance to the knockout rounds in World Cups at the U17 and U20 levels..................and lose to one of these powers. Like clockwork. Most recent U17 World Cup we were knocked out by Germany. Most recent U20 World Cup we were knocked out by Uruguay. Like clockwork. Knocked out of the World Cup by Holland. We are not yet those programs. Not yet anyway. No matter who the coach is.......................they can't make us France.

    Losing to Panama after totally dominating the match statistically? That happens.
     
  10. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just don’t see anything right now that won’t be fixed by AR and Dest playing instead of Scally and some makeshift LB solution.

    We have a great coach and players and an extended window for it to come together. We are suddenly going to shake off our malaise, find our grit, Poch will magically be invested, all for tangible soccer reasons, rather than made up pearl clutching.
     
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  11. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am pearl clutching the centerback and keeper situation.
    The ingredients are there for the rest of the team, whether it comes together or not is something else but the talent is there, imo.
    However, there’s no keeper I feel comfortable with. Chris Richards has to be a lock by default at this point, and he is plenty flawed. After him, no idea what will happen.
    I agree with the idea Poch is still figuring out his players, but I’m clutching pearls trying to figure out what the hell is the solution? If Poch can’t figure it out, I won’t be surprised at all.
     
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  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is the center-forward solution? Balogun has done nothing, Pepi has had lots of chances and seems to be at his best off the bench, Wright and Vazquez aren''t proven at international level.
     
  13. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We were fine in the WC with Turner, he or someone else will be competent enough at a lower level come the WC, if the rest of the team is functioning, we don’t need our keepers to stand on their heads like we used to.

    Same thing with the strikers, I think Balo, Sargent or Pepi will come good, or ******** all 3, once the MF and FB,s are functioning properly.
     
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  14. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hasn't he passed on from the being flawed label? He's basically started all year in the EPL and his team is in the final for the Cup. How many other CB's have we ever had that started all year solely at CB in the EPL? My worry with him is can he stay healthy. The other CB and keeper are the big worries. Really too bad Miles Robinson hasn't been the same after his injury a couple of years ago because there is a real need for a very fast CB to pair with Richards and Ream is not.
     
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  16. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah Richards is a starting CB and Crystal Palace are 12th in the Premier League just behind Fulham
     
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  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Richards looks more comfortable in a back 3 than a back 4.

    It also gives him the freedom to get forward and take Palace's attacking throw-ins.
     
  18. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even if one feels Chris Richards is more convincing than I do, that’s one guy.
    With the US, it’s a mixed bag for me. I like that he’s ball secure and does well one v one, good wheels to recover also. I do find him wanting in physicality, to me he is timid in scrambles and defensive aerials. He’s not a take charge guy back there.
    I’m pro Richards and want to find a partner that complements his best attributes so they can rise above the sum of the parts. If Poch can solve it, I’ll be impressed.
     
  19. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Marsch update:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    We did not generate enough chances to say that we dominated Panama “stylistically”. Well under 1 xG.
     
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  21. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    It’s abundantly clear that people are going to blame proven top class manager Poch before they take accountability for their own poor player evaluations.
     
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  22. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Richards is:

    1st percentile for passes into the final third (I didn’t think it was possible for him to be that low)
    7th percentile for passing completion rate
    7th percentile for progressive passing distance
    7th percentile for long pass completion rate
    13th percentile for progressive passes
    12th percentile for passes into the box
    77th percentile for throw ins (a whopping .88 per 90)
    47th percentile for attacking third touches (3.77 per 90, I would love to see the live vs. dead ball split).
     
  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's because he only takes long throws into a crowded 6 yard box. You can have 100% completion rate of all your throws are back to your keeper.
     
  24. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    It’s not throw in completion rate, it’s simply all throw ins. I type as he just attempts one.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So what does "77th percentile for throw ins (a whopping .88 per 90)" actually mean?
     

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