People have a very short memory. Berhalter was an overreaction to Klinsmann, who was tasked with overhauling the whole youth development system after 2014 but went surfing instead. After the fallout everyone who mattered said "we need the best young American coach" and Marsch was on his way to Salzburg, so they hired Berhalter. IMO he did a job in transitioning to a whole new generation of players (just think, they could have hired Caleb Porter). Then when we bombed out at the Copa everyone said we need a top international coach, so we hired Poch, who has a record of developing young players, has managed some of the biggest clubs in the world, and most importantly was out of a job. I don't think it matters that much who the manager is, it's really down to the players and luck. Bobby Robson is lauded by England fans as a hero for getting England to a semi-final where Gazza cried, but they really got there through a solid defence and a lot of luck. 3 goals in 3 games in the group stage, a 119' minute winner against Belgium then another ET winner against Cameroon. In 2002 the USA caught Portugal on an off day, got El Tri in R16 and took that confidence into the Germany game where they still lost. On that day Germany got the luck. If you look at the coaches of the World Cup semi-finalists: France: legendary French player England: respected foreign club coach Spain: promoted from U19, U21 and U23 teams Argentina: no club experience, inherited his job In other words it's a crap shoot! The coach is just the fall guy. England could easily have lost to Norway and Tuchel would be fired, if they beat Argentina he'll be a hero. It's that fine. What you need is a competent coach, some world-class players and a bit of luck. We're lacking in the middle part. The next coach could be Cherundolo or Scaloni and it's not going to make a huge amount of difference. Maybe Pep could do something out of the ordinary but he's been working with the best in the world for the last 10+ years.
I think in retrospect I would ask if Poch did the right thing in: - switching from a high press to a lot block in the second-half against Australia, when we could have scored a bunch more. I think this was prep for the later stages but we lost some momentum. - making such wholesale changes against Turkey. Obviously some players needed rest and some needed minutes but did we need to change the whole system? Again we lost momentum. - was Berhalter the right player to bring on in place of Pulisic? He's obviously Poch's go to guy and he nearly scored but he's not exactly putting pressure on their fullbacks. Why not Wright? - GK: Frees made an almighty f*** up at just the wrong time but we saw Turner do some crazy shit in England. It was an expensive brain fart. In terms of squad/team selection, Tessman could have sat on the bench instead of Roldan I guess. Ream did well until Rudi Garcia realized that he was old and slow and was covering a lot for Jedi, and switched Trossard to the right. Coaches make big calls, that's why you hire them, they're all going to lose at some point and then 49% of people will point and say "told you so!".
I mean "it's a crap shoot" is fatalistic in a way that I simply don't think is supported by objective evidence. The idea coach matters not at all is, to me, not supportable. And, you are arguing different things than I am stating. I don't think there's much to dancing this around more but I'll just restate my simple premise: One of the things we can do to improve the program is hire the best/most successful international coach regardless of nationality. We can do that at many levels. I believe we have not done that. I believe we should. I know it will not, necessarily, immediately pay off in measurable ways, but I believe in the long run it would improve the program and thus results, over time. You and others don't agree. Ok. Hopefully we get to test my hypothesis over the next 3 or 4 WC cycles, but who knows. That's all.
It's a crap shoot, in that a successful club manager can bomb out at international level while someone with no managerial experience, outside of the youth program, can win a World Cup. A Bradley or Berhalter can produce the same outcome as a Klinsmann or Pochettino.
We have to recognize that who we can hire now is constrained by what an oligarch like Ken Griffin will sign off on.Its his money paying. OR he nopes out and we can only pay an MLS coach.
Well yeah. But I think I'm talking more about the fan base measuring where our player pool is based on 1 game than whether the coach did a good or bad job. We are all frustrated because we believe the players are better than the egg they laid against Belgium. They looked like Keystone cops almost all game and it was stunning to watch compared to how they had played leading up to that game. They are better than that and I do honestly put a lot of blame on Sir Cheeto for causing such a distraction. I think it really got into our players' heads. Just sucks how it all played out.
Agreed on all that. We are better than we showed. Blame can be spread across the players, coaching staff, and the circus.
Who are the elite national team coaches out there? Doesn't seem many "elite" coaches are interested in national team gigs. Even the biggest countries struggle to get a top coach. And it wasn't like Ancelotti created any magic with the Brazilian team.
Yeah, because he's German and he's riding to the rescue of his home country. No other reason he's taking that job. I actually like the Panama coach. Seems he's had that group playing well above their collective talent for several years now.
Like he said, it's a rescue mission. Is there an American Klopp? Hopefully any USSF windfall won't be wasted on lawsuits like the Centenario money.
Again, I've said that any number of times and that is not my argument. One off/must win games or short tournaments have unique issues for sure, but if selecting a coach were really a "crap shoot" - over time, allowing for outliers - repeatedly successful clubs are wasting a huge amount of time and money on coaching searches and hiring. The arguments and excuses around a US coaching strategy continue to befuddle me.
Brazil hired the best player manager out there and they failed miserably. The top 4 teams talent wise are in the semis. Talent wins games, especially high stakes 1-off games played over multiple rounds. It's not like a season where you can make up for mistakes and bad games.
Exactly. A man who's won the Premier League, Serie A, La Liga, the Bundesliga, Ligue Un, the Champions League and the Club World Cup, and they didn't get past the round of 16. I'm not saying you shouldn't shoot for the Moon, just don't get uptight when you end up back in the same place.
If the claim is coaching has no effect on games or programs we will just have to agree to disagree. The logic trap of "this doesn't happen all the time so it never happens" should be fairly evident to most folks by now, but...
I think has a huge effect on the programs. It's everything in club football. As far as the World Cup goes its just a piece in the jigsaw. The US were better coached in this World Cup than 2022 or 2014. We got to R16.
Ok, well my entire argument is that getting the best coaches we could over the past many years and over the future many years would have/will improve the program so I'm a bit confused what this discussion has been about.
This was a hard read and very poorly written. This is a message board that affords you the luxury of organizing your thoughts and writing a coherent and structured response. The defense was bad because they just played badly. Their movement wasn't bad because they were like cones. They didn't play like this in the first four games. Their movement was so bad that it looked more like the fix was on than being poorly coached. As I mentioned, their behavior is very consistent with a team that fixes the game. Moreover, Belgium is a better team. If the US had played its best game, it still would have required Belgium to play poorly. I don't know if other US national teams sorted anything out. Our best finish was QF in 2002. The quality of players, relatively, is about the same. The media did a great job of convincing people that these guys are better than they actually are. Pulisic may be better than past iterations, but he was still surrounded by average to slightly above average players. What we need is at least one World Class Player and at least 4 elite players, and a few above- average players with good chemistry, if we want to go further. As we say in New Orleans, anything beyond the Round of 16 would have been lagniappe. One thing I will say, the players played as if they were scared or the fix was in. If the former, that is on the coach. If the latter, then clean house.
Disagree with this completely. vs 2022 -- Played better against the lower competition but worse against the better competition. And played an easier average schedule overall. Made it to the same round and played worse. With a much better player pool. vs 2014 -- Played a wayyyyyyy easier schedule and struggled against the first decent team. Made it to the same round and played worse. With a much better player pool.
I think having good coaches at all levels with them all on the same page is a good thing. I don't think coaching at the World Cup specifically is the most important factor. Tuchel was complaining that his players didn't follow instructions against Norway but they still won because they have so many world-class players who can make things happen ... and that cable.
poch is like 1 win and 8 losses vs european teams literally EVERY SINgLE european team has faced has trainwrecked him bosnia is not 32 team world cup quality...theyre only in cuz the field is expanded usmnt lost 4-0 to swiss 2-1 to turkey 5-2 belgium 2-0 portugal 4-1 belgium 2-1 germany 3-2 turkey thats a cumlative 22-7! "its just 90 minutes" is ridiculously wrong yeah well he played centerback....how does he not understand how to coach defense? he overrates motivation and mentiality---coming from the EPL....bc to even BE ON AN EPL roster, you have to be the best of the best....at that level, EVERYONE is actually good enough!! balo had absolutely ZERRO to do with ream and freese not being good enough.....they are weak mlsers that shouldve never been on the roster poch just lacks a basic eye for who is good enough and who isnt and thats a major reason why i dont want him back it was SO GLARINGLY obvious ream would not work at the world cup...i mean....every single friendly under poch was evidence of that!! what in the world was he thinking???????????
You're right. Berhalter tied England 0-0 in the World Cup; it's time for another American MLS coach. Thanks for convincing me, Adam.
my messge makes perfect sense for those wth reading comprehension yeah the usmnt defensively WERE like traffic cones....and THAT is due to scheme....thats actually my whole point against poch....thats due to instruction and coaching defense is about working together and knowing where to move and where you and your teammates will be and need to be/....its not actually a talent issue thats why paraguay could beat germany if you think the usmnt "just played bad" vs beligum go watch all of usmnt games under poch ....it was the same his entire tenure
Yeah, never said it was the most important factor. But we can't draft the best players to suddenly be US approved, we can for coaches. I still am befuddled by the inherent opposition on what is, to me, an incredibly obvious, non-controversial pov.