here are some direct quotes following the World Cup elimination: “One year ago, we were in a mess,” Pochettino said. “Today, at this World Cup, we improved a lot. But sometimes you improve little by little, it’s not linear. I’m so proud. “In one year, with all the circumstances, this team showed we can play football. We can play soccer. We can compete. We need to keep improving. A lot of players with potential, and a generation of young kids coming behind. It’s about to keep believing.” “This journey was amazing,” Pochettino said. “It’s still not even been two years at the federation. A cycle is four years. Today we closed a chapter about assessing players. Now, we have a complete assessment from a lot of players. If we commit to be here in the future, we have a clear idea about (the players). Before it was difficult. We didn’t have official games.” can anyone imagine Carlo Ancelotti saying this about Brazil, following their exit? Or Julian Nagelsmann for Germany? Berhalter had a younger team with less depth, limited options at the Forward position, not to mention the Claudio Reyna saga. The Dutch team we faced in 2022 was better than this year’s Belgium, taking Argentina to penalty kicks. Berhalter was vilified for not having the chops to have taken us further. The same crowd is somehow giving Poch a pass. The only reason, I can determine is because he’s from Argentina, not the United States.
"Gregg Berhalter's first U.S. national team roster reveals the massive task ahead' Goalkeepers: Alex Bono (Toronto FC), Sean Johnson (New York City FC), Tyler Miller (LAFC), Zack Steffen (Columbus Crew SC) Defenders: Reggie Cannon (FC Dallas), Greg Garza (FC Cincinnati), Justen Glad (Real Salt Lake), Nick Lima (San Jose Earthquakes), Aaron Long (New York Red Bulls), Daniel Lovitz (Montreal Impact), Mark McKenzie (Philadelphia Union), Keegan Rosenberry (Colorado Rapids), Auston Trusty (Philadelphia Union), Walker Zimmerman (LAFC) Midfielders: Kellyn Acosta (Colorado Rapids), Paul Arriola (D.C. United), Corey Baird (Real Salt Lake), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), Russell Canouse (D.C. United), Marky Delgado (Toronto FC), Sebastian Lletget (LA Galaxy), Djordje Mihailovic (Chicago Fire), Cristian Roldan (Seattle Sounders FC), Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew SC) Forwards: Jeremy Ebobisse (Portland Timbers), Christian Ramirez (LAFC), Gyasi Zardes (Columbus Crew SC) https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/726961/2018/12/20/usmnt-january-camp-roster-gregg-berhalter/ I think he did OK.
https://youtube.com/shorts/3YpFoCJxEF0?si=l1XLuEqpcYoAlak- day two of hell. Eric Wynalda expresses disappointment over the opportunity, lost. he thinks Pochettino is a good person and a good coach, but not right for our country
As I said the in “grade the Poch era” thread…. C- Slightly Below Average outcome given talent, draw, and home field. He didn’t move us forward.
I’ve probably spoken with 15-20 people in The Netherlands and UK about the US-Belgium match. None of them watched it (it was I think 1am UK time and 2am Netherlands time. All anyone will care about forever is that Trump intervened and Belgium won 4-1.
You are so right that this had to start 5 years ago. Well, it's 4 years before the next WC, (unless FIFA decides to money grab more often). It's not imperative to hire a new manager today. Dave Sarachan did a great job of integrating new caps into the national team 2 cycles ago. I'm sure that whichever interim US soccer puts in the job will do the same. But this must start asap. There are too many young players in MLS that need to be put in the national team situation to see if they are able to compete. I would start with adding Adri Mehmeti the pool. IMHO, it seems that GK and CB positions must be solidified. BTW, with Timmy Ream's invevitable retirement, and the subsequent addition of a 20 year old (today-24 in 2030) starter, our average in 2030 will be a slightly young 26.
There are two problems here 1. The current squad were over hyped and overrated. 2. They played so poorly against Belgium, I doubt any coaching would have changed the result. If the guy were European, then I could see that maybe he coached European fatalism. He is Argentinian, so I would expect he would have had inparted an inferiority complex. Twilight zone moment.....the play was so bad that you could argue they threw the game. Even the scoring was suspicious, with early goals, an accidental goal, and an immediate goal given away, preserving the spread. I am not saying that they did, but it has all of the key markers of one. Anyway, the coach has little impact on how well we do. The quality of players (relatively) is about the same in every WC. The results are about the same. The variable that needs to change is the quality of players relative to the rest of the world.
Lol - the idea that anyone (outside US soccer fandom) will remember anything about this game in 4 years, more less "forever" is silly. The US played like crap against a beatable team with home court advantage. That's on the players and the coach. But few fans outside USMNT faithful really expected the US to win or will give a rat's bits about this loss. Just like almost no one outside Mexico (and the US faithful! lol) remembers Brazil beating Mexico 2-0 in 2018 R16, or Brazil beating SK or Netherlands beating US in R16 2022. And the reality remains that no coach over one world cup cycle (esp one truncated to 2 years) will move the program significantly. The US program needs sustained attention and experimentation with the best coaches (at all levels, not just USMNT head coach) over many cycles to advance up the ladder further. Poch showed some promise for short-term results, but did not come through when he needed to most. Same for the players he coached. They choked. But it continues to be silly and short-sighted to think "just because a lesser coach could also do as mediocre a job in a single game we should continue to settle for mediocre coaches." That thinking is what will continue to keep the USMNT program stagnant. If we are not trying to higher the best at every level, what is even the point?
So what your saying is we need a long-term coach who will move the program significantly and he has to be an experienced world-class coach who overseas every age group but Poch isn't good enough and we need to do this to be ready for 2030?
Not at all - and let's not be silly just cause this is BS. What I am saying (and have said since the Bora era) is that one way we can attempt to propel the program - and therefor ultimately the results, consistently and over time - is to improve the inputs into the program at every level. We cannot (for the most part) "draft" US eligible players from world class players, but can hire any coach (who we are willing to pay and who is willing to coach us) for the US program. Those coaches can be experienced, world class (or as close as we can get) coaches. There is no world in which one can argue that Berhalter, Arena, Sampson or Bradley were ever the best or even close to one of the best, coaches (by objective standards) in the world. Same for Dolo, Kreis, Ramos, Porter, etc. etc. etc. And there's nothing wrong with any of those guys. Lots of good smart soccer folk. But no rational soccer person would every argue that if you wanted to get the best U23 coach in the world, Dolo would be on your short list at this moment. Now, will hiring the "best" (most successful) coach we can get to coach us always result in a better WC performance? Of course not. The players are the players and one-off games are always fraught. But if we want(ed) to consistently improve the program, over time, we would have (and should now) continue to bring in the very best, most successful coaches we can attract, and allow them to contribute to the US soccer infrastructure and development (of the infrastructure). There will be crashes and burns along the way - as there have been with the route we chose - but in the long term there would be improvement to the program overall and therefore US soccer culture at the top level. We should have started years ago, but might as well start now.
In the US, esp among US diehards, sure. But I interact with tons of non-US footie fans all the time. Watch all the games in bars stocked with non-US partisans (even tho many are US citizens.) Hit them up next cycle and ask the top 5 or 10 things they remember from WC 2026 and "Trump got US a pass on some Ligue 1 striker and they still sucked" will not be a top answer. Not in a world of Messi, Mbappe, Modric, Ronaldo, Haaland, Cape Verde, Egypt-Argentina. England-Mexico, Belgium-Senegal, and more games to come. In fact, now that I type those few incidents I'm more convinced than ever. Unless Balo suddenly transforms into Haaland, or does something amazing next WC, I doubt most non-US/non-French casual fans even remember him.
Provided you don't see more interference of more of him ... I think it will disappear much faster than people think because it basically had zero effect on the tournament. People remember the Hand of God, but there's a million not called handballs no one remembers that weren't impactful. You think anyone remembers Torgsten Frings? People only rarely and vaguely bring up South Korea's run ... but they made the semis. Is there a case of controversy widely discussed outside of the fanbase decades later for any team that got beat in the Round of 16? I guess the Colombian handball, but someone had to die. I agree this will last longer than a typical bad call because it was a government and not just on field crap. But I think it fades fairly quickly because we didn't even win the next game, much less further.
We did that with Klinsmann. It failed. The next 5 appointments might not meet expectations. All of a sudden it's 2046 and people are saying the same thing. Keep Poch, get someone better than Crocker who understands the US system, can create a long-term strategy for youth development and can actively recruit dual nats (or at least retain the American born ones).
couldnt disagree more about talent being the reason the team lost to belgium...its really about coordinated actions they didnt know where to move defenesively i dont know what it was but pochettino NEVER got the defense sorted out his teams gave up these soft weird goals his whole usmnt tenure and it was down to poor reactions and rotations...which is SCHEME not talent past usmnts and managers have EASILY sorted this and gotten it right....its not rocket science a chain is really as strong as its weakest link....you cant have a centerback who cannot defend....like ream change the CB and the GK and the belgium game all of a sudden becomes VERY COMPETITIVE theres simply no way these guys could all be having the club success that they do if they didnt have quality it was a problem with the gameplan...you cant play the same tactics every game unless you are spain or france.....even then, those teams still need to make adjustments poch got OUTCOACHED...and as a result of some very naive assumptions...that a 5th grader could see were wrong from day 1..... im with you on the throwing the game thing, though....that was SUSPICIOUSLY bad,....they didnt even look like the same players.....it was bizarre im not sure exactly what it was...i think the moment just got too big for them and they all git collective stage fright basically i think the ref just never fvored the usmnt all tournament....fifa allowed so much chippy play and then also called some things super tight.....which hurt the usmnt badly in thise tournamnet as they dont use the dark arts (and im glad they dont) just because the team got demolished doesnt mean it was an issue of talent the coach messed up, imo he shouldnjt have ignored the 5-2 belgium friendly... as i said, poch is idealistic and naive....he thoyght all the good vibes of the world cup....meant the team was now "different" and ream could now defend bc of "vibes"..... poch is crafty and very clever in a lot of ways....but hes also incredibly naive and blind in others,.....its very strange he needs perspective and an atttude adjustment IF he got that....he COULD be good..... i think, also, he hasnt coached national team soccer before and didnt quite understand some things he does now (hopfullly)
See, I think this is exactly the problem. We expect one experiment with one head coach to "succeed" - like what does that even mean? (and, I'd add, even with Klinsi he had to "understand" the US/American system - wut?) Had the US started back in the 90s hiring the best coaches we could attract at every level, we likely would have trained up a generation of top US coaches by now, and would have had a chance to ingrain a higher level of expectations in the program. Ultimately, the players are they players, but one of the things we are able to do - by rules and finances - is hire the best coaches that are willing to do the job. We have only even tried something close to that twice in our entire history now - and Poch was only given 2 years. The idea one coach in one cycle or half-cycle is going to move the needle is naive. But so is the idea that a revolving door of perfectly decent but not internationally seasoned MLS coaches will do it instead. It always perplexes me that something I see as completely obvious on the face of it gets so much push back from folks but here we are.
I agree with you in the sense that there's no reason not to hire the best head coach available, but I don't think Klinsmann deserves to be in that discussion. And it is entirely worth noting that the reach of a coach is pretty limited, overall.
The people who hired him, then extended his contract had that expectation. With what money? Back in 2000 USSF had $14 million in assets (today it has $459M) and MLS had to contract and rely on Anschutz, Kraft and Hunt to bail it out.
Sure. They probably thought he'd try the entire length of his contract, too. We don't always get what we expect. I do agree it is silly to think that we could have hired an elite coach many years ago, but there's no reason why we can't continue to do so now, especially if Ken Griffin is on board.
Again "the best coach we could" also includes financials. Perhaps Arena was, due to salary constraints the "best [most internationally successful and experienced] coach" we could have hired in 2000. I am unconvinced about that, but maybe. And maybe Arena and Charles were the best U23's we could attract and afford at the time. 2000 was an ok year for the olympic team. But even if in 2000 [and again, really? but sure] Sampson, Arena and Charles were the best international coaches we could attract and afford at the time, was Bradley? Klisman? Berhalter? In what universe? The argument is "elite" vs. "not elite" it is "most internationally successful and experienced." But anyway, we're talking circles here. But it is impossible to argue very convincingly that doing what we did propelled the program in any meaningful way. We're still a very solid 10-20 team who is always likely to reach the WC R16 with the right draw, and never likely to make it much further unless we catch a lucky break.
National team coaches don’t push a program forward. Their job is to take the pool (and that includes potential dual nationals) and get the most out of it. The scorecard is typically continental championships and of course the World Cup, weighted a bit for luck of the draw. The US’s problems are structural. Poch didn’t get us any farther than previous coaches (and our exit was worse), despite a better talent pool. He didn’t succeed at his primary job.
In no other industry do we judge a manager or boss on 1-90 minute span. The team choked big time against Belgium but the other 4 games they crushed it. That's going to happen when you measure success based off a win or go home tournament played every 4 years. It seems to me our player pool is getting better and expanding and I don't really get the "the next coach needs to understand the American system (or whatever) mentality" because more and more of our top young talent will be in Europe at younger ages. We of course will have team depth playing in MLS but does anyone think our starters in 2030 won't all be playing in Europe? Who thinks Sullivan, Mehemti, Goza, etc will be in MLS in 4 let alone 2 years? Wasn't one big reason MLS is changing to a Fall-Spring format was to align the season to the transfer windows? Which will make it easier to sell players to Europe? Crazy stuff happens in the WC, just like in all single elimination tournaments. So I think the real goal is to start the tournament feeling we have a chance to compete to get to the final 4. Because injuries, brain farts, stupid cards, etc happen in games that can't be prepared for. It's really judging the player pool. No one was really shocked Germany, Brazil, and Uruguay went out when they did because their player pool just isn't there like it's been in the past.
But that's how it is. That's the scorecard. If a coach doesn't like that being the measuring stick, then don't take the job. But most of your other stuff I agree with. Like I said before, I don't give a s*** about if a coach "understands the American system" or whatever. The USMNT coach's job is not to push the program forward, it's to get the most out of the team given the circumstances (play pool, draw, etc.). It's harsh, but if you succeed (Arena v1), you're a hero and if you fail (Sampson, Klinsi v2, Arena v2), you're the goat. If you do what is the baseline expectation (Klinsi v1, Bradley, Poch, etc) then meh. Time to move on. But context matters. Getting through the group of death and going out in extra time against a strong Belgium team (Klini v1), turns that average performance into something that looks and feels a bit better. Winning a watered down group and beating a team outside the Top 50 only to get demolished by a middling Belgium team -- that "average" performance looks and feels a lot worse.
Poch is not a defense first coach ,either with club or country. And he does count on motivation and mentality. The Balo controversy ruined the motivation somehow for us and pissed off Belgium. We still wouldn't have won,but we wouldn't have been embarrassed.