We've all seen it. Our top players have had a tendency to play "entitled" ball this cycle with us. That's how Panama and Canada beat us. There's no way to know until we get the "full" team back out there again, hopefully in March at least once (though I'm pretty certain that Poch actually wants an A/B team mix for chemistry reasons), but I hope that's over now, that the stakes have become obvious, and that a couple of known names (especially in midfield) will likely be dropped altogether.
I'm really glad that Pochettino is making the "Golden Generation" finally worry about their spots. If another big soccer country got grouped while hosting a major tournament, would anyone be terribly surprised if their starters were sent into permanent exile? But many of those guys may get the chance to repeat that dubious feat next year, even after they got a chance at redemption in the Nations League and failed again. However, the idea that Messi and other superstars haven't taken their positions for granted is questionable. Maradona seemed comfortable enough about his status to blackball certain talented players from Argentina's NT. Messi also felt emboldened enough to threaten the same to Pedro de la Vega, and didn't he skip an Argentina friendly this summer as well? None of our guys are at that level, though.
I get your point and it has some validity. But Panama beat us because a shitty ref didn't handle a smash to our keeper and Weah let it go to his head and got a red card. Even playing down a man most of the game they still almost pulled it out.
Yes. That really feels like it was true to a less specific extent the second time they beat us, and Canada as well. Hungry and disciplined and eager Panamanian and Canadian teams came out of the locker room knowing that they could take their whacks at Christian and the others and make us play the game on their terms, and our guys were continually flummoxed that the refs weren't protecting them, and who the eff did these guys get off thinking that they were....? While I'm sure that none would admit to thinking that, it was just too obvious that they had felt that in the moment, that they had played like that. On the contrary, our B-heavy teams these past couple of months have decidedly NOT played like that at all. They've come out focused and hungry, with little or no expectations of respect.
Ehhh, even that result, as disgusting as it was, was basically a game won completely and totally against the run of play. Literally every metric you can measure except the most important one (Goal's scored) was dominated by the US. 10 shots to 4 5 Shots on goal to 1 9 corners to 3 2-1 possession (67-33%) 1.56 to 0.57 xG I think the most honest, accurate portrayal is that Panama won both games completely off of flukes. In the Copa America, they mugged our player, and then took advantage of Weah's stupidity to beat us (a game where we had a goal waived off that could have given us a 2-0 lead too). That game involved a real miserable, choking effort by the players and coaches, and was a collective loss...the coach allowed the players to grab a lead, didn't aggressively deal with growing discombobulation heading into halftime, and made subs to pray that the defense could hold up 2006 vs Italy style while down a man for 75+ minutes which was insane. The players themselves were also to blame for simply not being able to handle the 1-0 lead, and play sensibly heading to half, giving up a stupid goal in the process. The NL loss was a game in which the US was totally dominant (Panama literally didn't register a single shot on goal until 90+ minute injury time, and due to Turner's complete collapse in form, were able to score off a totally savable shot), and lost on a flukish goal ridiculously against the run of play largely because their keeper sucked, their defending had a brain fart late and they couldn't finish to save their lives. The Canada game was more concerning. They didn't react to that horror show by putting the wood to Canada to end the pain, instead they simply walked through it, and let Canada shiv us in our own house even after their talisman went down with a torn ACL injury. They had mental toughness, we didn't. It reminded me of the way they reacted to barely getting by freaking Trinidad in NL in late '23, by essentially losing to Jamaica in the Semifinals, only to get bailed out by the refs (ridiculous amount of injury time) and a fortunate own goal scored when the game should have been over.... If we have a successful World Cup, it will be because of the combo of the Copa America horror, and the total failure of the team a year later, after they should have already had their gut check moment and gotten right. Will be interesting to see if Poch has got the guys right, mentally, or if this is just a temporary blip for a team that can't play consistently, ever.
In fairness, there is nothing at all wrong with the players being upset and confused that our region tolerates insane nonsense that would get you red carded immediately, or double yellowed in literally any other region beyond ours (and at times, Conmebol). They play 95% of their minutes with competent refs, then come here, and play essentially some amalgam of rugby, soccer, and attempted homicide. It's basically clinically insane. Our domestics get it, because they play with some of the same refs in their leagues, and certainly in leagues cup and what not...but I totally get why our players are flabbergasted. It is complete and utter bull---- and totally unacceptable, and at times, I wonder if we should just roll out domestic teams so our star's don't risk getting destroyed by two footed ankle breakers like poor Holden (although admittedly, that was against the Dutch lol, although one of their thugs did it). These refs have literally tolerated a player deliberately breaking Reyna's leg as a form of a brush back pitch after multiple goal contributes, they've allowed McKennie to get strangled 3 times, and Aaronson to get eye gouged, with literally zero reds for any of those offenses, all clearly seen by the refs. Hell El Tri tried to strangle a Canada player the same calendar year that they eye gouged Aaronson, and 1 of their other attempted murders of McKennie....It is insane. This isn't about our players being soft so much as our players not realizing until its way too late, that this region is clinically insane, biased, incompetent, corrupt, and culturally approving of this level of violence in the game, they should figure it out and act accordingly, I've gotten the sense that they have done, just in time for refs to inexplicably suddenly to decide to give red cards (to Dest, McKennie and Weah) lol.
It's NOT a blip. Poch has figured out the strengths and weaknesses of a bunch of our guys, how to tactically use them, and how to motivate them. The worry is that the players that he's best figured out how to coach are the Berhalters and Roldans and Arfstens and Freemans of the pool. Not the Pulisics and McKennies and Dests and Jedis, who are real proven difference makers at the highest level.
If that's who he can get the best out of, then so be it. Don't fall for the Badge FC fallacy, even if it means the "golden generation" is "snubbed" in favor of the players who will give us the best chance to win. As Herb Brooks once put it, we're not looking for the best players, we're looking for the right ones.
I know what you're talking about, but getting 99% out of Pulisic or Jedi is definitely better than getting 99% out of Arfsten (who tends to get WAY more contempt than he deserves) or Luna, and that's what it will take to beat the big teams, especially more than once. In particular, I'm concerned that part of Arfsten's recent success--way more than anyone but Poch has envisioned--has been his novelty. With the national team, defenders have been shading him to his left foot, thinking that they're neutralizing him, and then takes what they give him and beats them to his right and actually whips in a good ball. By the time the WC rolls around, everyone is going to know that he's two-footed, most especially Paraguay and Australia, who have already played against him.
We have no idea how Jedi will play post-injury. As for Pulisic, I've already made my case as to what I believe his role should be. The results don't lie. We've been playing our best football under Poch these last 5 games. I want players who will fight for the badge, and play like they've got nothing to lose, not those Eurodivas who echo the "soft, underperforming, tattooed millionaire" mentality that marred the lost generation.
They haven't been like that always. They got like that about a year into the cycle. They genuinely are that much better. They simply have to play as such collectively, and Pochettino has to figure out how to get them to do so. My guess is that they've just been motivated. The World Cup was always going to be important to them. It's just the friendlies and the CONCACAF events that have left them a little lacking in motivation, and now they have a real reason to piss or get off the pot. But Poch still has to figure out how to use them. He knows Arfsten, etc.
The draw seems tailor made to learn whether Pochettino is worth his salt. WC success was always the metric, but this group is especially designed to expose coaching. Why? Because replays are hard in soccer. All three (assuming Turkyie) of the group opponents played Poch’s setup very recently. Who makes the best adjustments? If Poch is all that, the US will have benefitted more from those games because he will adjust and anticipate adjustments better. If not, he’ll get out coached and the other teams will have figured out better what to do.
And that's the problem. You can't have this mentality of "Oh it's OK not to give 100% now, when the World Cup comes around, we'll be ready." No, there needs to be inherent pride in putting that crest over your heart, every time you step out on the pitch. JK sent that message when he left Landycakes off the plane to Brazil. You can't go off galavanting to Cambodia while your country is playing must-win World Cup qualifiers and expect to be welcomed back with open arms. Give me the guys who have heart and will fight for the badge over the Badge FC Eurodivas who are there to hang out on the golf course and go to the hookah bar with their friends like it's a f*****g vacation. We've seen the results. Badge FC lost to Panama and Canada. The guys who have heart beat Japan and Uruguay. Those are the players I want representing my country on the world's biggest stage.
I think we've gone a little overboard with it. Watch that Nations League loss to Panama again. We so dominated the middle 75 minutes of that game with these so-called prima donna Euro-based players.....................that Panama could barely get out of their own half. They ended up in an extreme bunker with two banks of five. Every time Pulisic got the ball he was immediately surrounded by three defenders hacking at his kneecaps. Competition is great. We should want players nipping at the heels of the core players. We should want them to feel the foot-steps so they fight even harder for their places. But who are we implying doesn't "fight for the badge?" Adams, McKennie? Whom? Pulisic? Do people not watch how hard Pulisic fights and what he deals with when he represents the USMNT? Do people not see how he's made to suffer?
My oldest son and I were at that game. And its when we decided that yellow cards need a serious rethinking. Panama hacked us to death the last 30 minutes. And they either got no call or a foul. Panama was smart in that they had different players doing to hacking to a yellow was almost meaningless. There were several outside runs that we got fouled from behind (40 yards or so out) and a yellow was of no consequence compared to the danger those runs were presenting. Several of those yellows could have been reds and frankly after the 3rd of 4th "professional" foul if I was the ref I would have been hammering Panama with the cards. Its was simply a disgusting job by that referee.
And yet we still lost. Twice. Because the Eurodivas saw USMNT camp as a vacation to play golf and go to the hookah bar. Whatever mentality existed in 21-23 completely evaporated in 24-25. As for Pulisic, if he had heart, he'd have played with us last summer instead of resting.
You can tell this person is making some good and serious arguments because he uses words like "Eurodivas" and "Landycakes."
I think you're right, but I do not think it's reasonable to make such a statement without a caveat. The reality here is that it's been done for two windows, and a game against a Japanese what exactly (sounded like B team or worse, so that game, while not toss out able, shouldn't garner nearly the attention as the October and November windows other than the 3 ATB pivot point), so while like you, I think we've turned a corner, it's a hopeful opinion based on 4 games in friendlies and as you referenced, friendlies where we had weird Frankenstein's monster amalgam's of our top 30-35 players....that's both good and bad, good in that HOLY ----!!!!, they took a mostly murderers row of friendlies to the woodshed (2nd (29 points), and 4th and 6th (the latter two both at 28 points) finishers in Conmebol) to the woodshed, bad in that as you said, a lot of the key players and differences makers were not in anyone's 11 with just a handful of exceptions... Otoh, I also think the vets really don't have a leg to stand on beyond 1 sort of piece of logic (you start your best players, who make up your best team, not the guys currently on a heater), in that Poch can look at them and say: "These guys went out, and grabbed runner up status while getting robbed of a penalty in the Gold Cup having literally never played together as a unit, and then they faced off with the 9th (Ecuador), 14th (Uruguay), 21st (Paraguay), and 30th (Australia) ranked sides in the world, and were fantastic, 3 wins and a draw. You guys freaking lost to Panama twice and Canada at home, got completely annihilated by Colombia, that same Uruguay that turned you guys info flaccid eunuchs (that B/C team beat 5-1), you needed the refs and an own goal to bail you out AT HOME, against Jamaica, and you even lost to freaking Trinidad in the 18 months before I kicked you losers to the curb......" I don't agree w/the argument, but I also can't deny it's factually true. The vets from '23-'25 played like absolute horse ----. Multiple Panama losses at home, essentially a loss to Jamaica at home (refs bailed us out), annihilated against Colombia, humiliated against Uruguay, lost to T&T at home, and barely escaped with a home win against T&T while up a man for 60 minutes (could not find our opening goal until the 79th minute).... it's beyond pathetic.... So why shouldn't Poch say in March, "I'm calling you guys up, you will fight for your place, right now, many of you do not have a ticket on that metaphorical plane, so you better bust your --- in March, or you can watch the guys who actually give a ---- play instead on your tv...."I already know I got 15-20 guys who would dive on a grenade for the team, I don't know that w/you, I am more than willing to go with these guys, who I know I can actually build a fighting team with, rather than go with guys that couldn't garner the self respect to lift a finger to fight for the crest at home against the likes of Trinidad, Panama twice, Colombia, Uruguay, Canada etc...." That's a ton of hyperbole, and it's half bull----, but it's also half true... He's got a real interesting situation for March. Maybe injuries end up deciding it, or maybe we just see some real interesting exclusions we could have never expected 18 months ago. For starters, Musah definitely is not on the plane, Turner is the backup goalie....what else is brewing?
As someone who wasn't buying AT ALL with ARF, and I still don't really buy the idea that he was good this summer, I don't think he was, however, with 3 ATB, I'm buying, and I've eased up on shredding him. I just don't want him at a LFB, period. It's just a bad idea, but if we're playing 3 ATB, I can live with it, especially if Adams is healthy. His productivity in the shirt, and in MLS is suggestive of a player that's actually just pretty good, period, just maybe not a natural FB, or adequate spackle in a pinch there either.
I don't think Turkey did, I do think Australia and Paraguay did. In fairness, all 3 of them faced 3-5 of our first choice field players if the whole team is buying in and Poch can take the talent based best XI. We look real, real, real different when we can peel off a collection of players like: Balo/Pepi Pulisic/Weah Tillman/Reyna/McKennie Jedi/Dest/Arf/Freeman Adams/Tessman/McKennie Richards and Please God someone other than Ream Freese, Turner, or Kochen after he gets 20 starts in my dreams this winter spring They basically faced, 3 to 5 of the first choice or startable options. So even if they kind of got the system, the vast bulk of them missed 2-3 of our 4 pieces of our attacking spear, and 1, 2 or all 3 of our first option CM's, and 1 or both of our FB's.....Even with the same set up, this team looks a lot different with Balo, or Pepi, rather than Wright, or Agyemang, or Sargent..... But yeah, it's still an interesting point, I do think we actually have a bit more of an advantage from the standpoint that I think we saw far more of Turkey's, Paraguay's and Australia's first team than they saw of ours.
I don't know enough about Musah, but it does seem that while a pillar of Islam, it's not remotely comparable to the reality that Donovan was dancing way to close to suicidal ideation when he took his sabbatical. I give full, full, full free passes for that. We've seen guys like Eddie Griffin (former top 10 NBA draft pick 20+ years ago), and Enke and Biermann both died of suicide on either side of Donovan's sabbatical. Donovan had a legit reason to step away. It was at minimum, to save his mental health, and potentially to save his life. It's not the same as choosing to commit to one of the five pillars of Islam, when such a commitment is considered legit at any time in your life, and not simply when you feel like doing it. I understand Musah doing it, but he had the flexibility to pick when, Donovan didn't.
I think it’s the mystical insight into the player’s hearts. That’s a clear marker of UEFA Pro licensing as far as I’m concerned.
I posted on this yesterday, and I do agree, anyone that actually just sits down and looks at the game, realizes very quickly that the US completely dominated Panama in every statistical category and only lost in that moment because Turner and the D became traffic cones after having not allowed a single shot on goal the previous 90 minutes (think about that, how much did they not care exactly when Panama was played off the field to that degree). It was the very definition of "against the run of play". My issue is that the Panama loss wasn't one simple disappointment, it was of a piece with a long, lingering trend line before and after of staggeringly --- results. If it was isolated, and we bounced back against Canada, I'd buy the argument, but it wasn't.... We got surprised by Uzbekistan, and threw away a fast start against Germany fall '23, then completely ---- our pants against a team we were supposedly getting fake revenge against (FFS we LOST away to T&T in our first appearance back there after having lost at Couva, way to man up boys, and before that, while up a man, they couldn't find a goal for nearly an hour, and came within 10 minutes of going to T&T at 0-0, which would have had us crashing out early), we then reacted to that gut check horror away in T&T by essentially losing to Jamaica, and sure we woke up against El Tri (we always seem to), but fell asleep again in getting smashed by Colombia, getting humiliated against Panama, and then weakly conceding to Uruguay, no shots on goal until the last 15 minutes of the game, lol, in a game we needed to win by multiple goals to save our Copa America. The reality is, these guys had 5 miserable performances in the preceding 6 tournament games (Nations League and Copa America) before that against the run of play loss to Panama, and responded by it by getting outplayed by Canada in a humiliating 1-2 loss at home in a game where Canada should have been gutted, and vulnerable, and instead, rose, and kicked us in the nuts (they lost Davies to a torn ACL moments into the game). The reality is the big boys had put together at least 6 crap tournament based performances in the previous 15 months, and some ugly friendlies too. It wasn't just Panama, it was a long, long list of "entitled and suck".
The problem is that Concacaf (and Conmebol) are culturally disinclined to call fouls properly, and issue yellow and red cards properly. Studies have been done and they do it far, far less than other regions. It's endemic to concacrap. Link: https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/45502051/usmnt-gold-cup-mexico-canada-getting-concacafed "... Though the Gold Cup averages more fouls per game than any of the three other competitions, it also averages the second-fewest yellow cards -- just barely more (1.86 per game to 1.85) than at the Euros. The way I'd interpret this data: The Concacaf referees allow a lot more physicality than refs do in any of the other tournaments. Though the Copa América has a reputation for being one big rock fight, there aren't as many fouls as in North America, and the referees are way quicker on the draw with their yellow and red cards....."