???? Gio has been with the program for years, and even played for us in Qatar. It’s amazing you don’t remember that given the controversy involving his parents and Gregg. And Balo has scored for us plenty already, and if bigsoccer did a poll for first choice striker I’m sure he’d win, and probably dominate. When I see posts like this I wonder, what would it be like to post at bigsoccer with literally everyone on ignore. It would be like a Twilight Zone episode lol. Anyway, I think that might be what you’re doing if Reyna and Balogun are hidden talents. Here are some resources for you. It’ll get you started. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folarin_Balogun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Reyna
An international manager has to do 3 things well to be successful; 1) Select the right players from the available pool. 2) Devise a straightforward scheme that suits the selected players. 3) Motivate the selected players to be confident and perform in the selected scheme. Right now Poch is ticking the boxes on all 3 components.
Let's review how we got here - you came in to say that we were fools to question whether Poch had the devotion to actually learn our player pool and question how dialed-in he was based on a number of choices and poor performances in order to crow about how foolish BigSoccer is and how you knew all along (based on a series of decent games) that this "best coach by a country mile" clearly was playing 3-d chess. My point isn't that Arena is a better coach - my point is that it's fair to question how much of a difference his coaching pedigree really makes and how dialed he is in to this program and to question what magic powers people think he has - heck he may have outsourced scouting MLS players to some degree or other - and it's fair to question whether his methods will work in the World Cup. Would you be saying the same things that it's freaking ********ing obvious that Mourinho is better than any coach by miles we've ever had? Mourinho who has accomplished a boatload more than Pochettino ever has? What is your basis for thinking he's so great and what does that means for us? I think @gogoroth captures my general sentiment - he seems to be building a good culture and we seem to be playing with confidence. Will his approach work when we come up against the big boys in the World Cup or will we get handed our lunch? The part I disagree with is that I think there are limits to how much an international coach can improve our players with little details - these players are full internationals and there are limits to how much they can learn at this point. If people are played in positions and roles they can succeed in and their instructions are clear and we are playing as a team - sure - that could go a long way towards our punching above our weight. But we are only as good as our weakest spots and as much as I love Ream, for example, no coach can make him faster, more athetic or less gaffe prone. I just think a guy like Arena could also do much of this - build a culture, identify talent, get us playing well together - because he's done it. Ultimately we have weak spots and we are likely going to be relying on intense expenditures of energy to succeed which will potentially have diminishing returns in a long tournament. I think it's great that it seems like we are less of a disaster than it seemed earlier - but until Pochettino has a master class tactical coaching display in the World Cup, I'm not going to give him too much credit for the performance of our pool - if we have guys in their prime finally playing with more maturity. But likewise, I won't blame him too heavily if Freese or whoever can't deal with the chances we may give up. But like I said earlier, I think it could be disappointing if people's faith in Poch's resume leads them to give him more credit than he deserves for a home soil, talented players in their prime(ish) performance.
For the record I think you go hard on Poch, at least considerably harder than I do, but all of this is all pretty much 100% fair IMO.
It is true that any manager could but Arena could not in 2006 and could not in 2018. Your Euro Pixi dust comments shows you biases and it has zero to do with Poch's performance. Currently he is selecting the right players and everyone can see he has all of them playing with confidence and belief. Can't ask for much else at this point.
The context for what it has to do with is there. I'm saying the market may not view him as elite as posters here do. And if he is, what does that have to do with anything? He's probably better than Walid and Hajime too - does it matter that much?
Bruce obviously could build a culture, but I don't know that Bruce would build specifically some of what we've been building. I'm not making a case for Pochettino being a genius or anything, but I don't think Bruce would be as offensively aggressive or as optimistic about our players' ability to execute the gameplan that Poch has put together. Part of what I am enjoying -- and fully admit might blow up in our faces -- is that instead of pulling back and thinking we can't play proactive, aggression possession ball like many fans and just about every prior coach, Poch is instead not only challenging our A team to do it, but guys most fans think are try hard trash ... ... and they are largely doing it. I'm pretty sure Bruce thinks this is a disaster in the making. He always seemed pretty skeptical of every successor's attempt to play more with the ball. Poch is not only doing that; he has us playing fast with the ball, attempting overloads I can't remember a single coach ever trying in real games, and so on. Every other coach that tried anything close to this pulled back to much more conservative gameplans. Bradley, Klinsy and Berhalter. And it's not to say that Poch is going to succeed or even that it's fair to compare given the pools. But I think it's interesting to see that we're running full steam ahead here ... and it's entirely on the backs of the most skilled players. Then again, I'm actually okay with the experiment even if it ends somewhat badly, and I think I'm probably in the minority there. I just think that this is the next step and going overly in the opposite direction is stagnation.
I'm hard on him for a few reasons - 1) I think he's overrated by many and that mediocre coaches can achieve great things and elite coaches can overcoach (and there is a big group of mediocre coaches that aren't all that different) and 2) I think this cycle is set up for a coach like Poch to potentially doing very well and getting outsized credit when it's the players and 3) I'm worried that Poch isn't going to pull the right strings against teams like the Netherlands in the last Cup and we may not do as well as I hope. I'm not convinced he's tactically that savvy in ways we may need.
I guess I have a little more Arena than you - I think a longer run is way more important for the next World Cup, even if we have to bunker against certain opponents to get there.
Surely it matters when we're talking about "best coach US soccer has ever had"? That was the digression, far as I can tell. All this said I could obviously be wrong about Poch, and we won't really know until next summer but your stated opinions on him might very well be justified. There's nothing unreasonable there. Next summer will be interesting to see -- the squad, the draw, potential knockout opponents, and of course Poch's tactical approach. Probably in that order, for me.
Poch coached Spurs to a Champions League final. SPURS! Weird that a 4 game unbeaten streak against nations that have qualified for the World Cup has led to this Poch navel-gaving. Are coaches better than Poch lining up to coach the USMNT? If you want more evidence, Pochettino coached Southampton to 8th. Southampton. 8th! Their highest point tally since 1992. Is he the best coach the USMNT has ever had? YES. Does that mean our results at the World Cup will be better than Arena or Berhalter or Klinsmann accomplished? No, it doesn't. His results in the Nations League and Gold Cup haven't been. Lest we forget, we haven't won more than one game at the World Cup once since 1930. Winning two games in the group phase would be a novel accomplishment.
I just think there is a degree of thinking that Poch's european pedigree means a little more than the reality and while it's true, part of me would rather a local coach be part of our shock the world campaign (by local I'm including a coach like Nancy), I'm fine with Poch being the coach and I can see the pluses of a coach like him. I don't hate the guy or want him to fail and it's fun seeing us play better. But I'm also worried that he's going to struggle when his approach isn't working (as fans of teams he has coached have complained about him) and/or he's going to get way more credit than he deserves.
Let’s review how we got here yeah. I’ve been involved this thread from the jump, not just randomly showing up. I recently came in and repeated what I’ve said from the time the baseless and lazy narrative that Poch is on vacation started: he may not be the right guy for the job, maybe you can’t implement anything worthwhile in the short time international coaches have etc. But Poch is a very serious and intense manager and to question his commitment isn’t just lazy and lame imo, it’s stupid when you have a 20 year carrier as evidence in diametrical opposition to that assertion. My never change BS comment was in regard to those committed to their incorrect narrative changing from a he’s on vacation line to, results are only better because he finally made this big and obvious change that I would have made a lot earlier I guess my big mistake was saying the banal, obvious and objectively true statement of fact that Pochettinho is the best manager we’ve ever had. I suppose I should have qualified that with that caveat that no one, myself included has any idea yet if that means he will actually accomplish anything worthwhile with us, but I do think it means he has a plan and probably isn’t mailing it in.. Show me the lie. All this nonsense about me being a Euro magic Pixie dust type and some sort of Pochettino cultist… well that’s not on me is it?
Have no idea how people are arguing against good recent results that look different from anything I’ve seen with the pool (started following in like 2012). To say Poch hasn’t been apart of that is either naive or stick your heels in the sand.
This is more or less exactly it but this is also why I think there’s only a marginal impact of having a better manager internationally. Because that’s not that difficult for most coaches to meet that standard.
To be clear, I'm not against pragmatism in select matches going forward. I don't specifically want to see a bunker, but we should tailor our gameplans. However, I do want us to play how we did against Paraguay most of the time. Whereas Berhalter shifted very defensive by the World Cup -- not just MMA but clearly not having the CMs engage in the offense beyond a certain point, etc. We scrapped and defended and asked Christian, Weah and Dest to get us a goal. The default became conservative and defensive; it wasn't just in specific games. I don't have a problem with the decision inherently, especially in light of our health situation and our lack of a real striker. But I don't think we have the personnel compromises here we had then. If we are reasonably healthy, I think we are likely to have a stronger roster across the board. Even if he have injuries, I'm getting convinced that a guy like Roldan can handle it ... when Berhalter didn't even think 2022 Roldan should get minutes.
Though even with Arena 2 of his 3 stints as national team coach were failures (along with the programs best modern day success). And of course both those failures had extenuating circumstances, but it’s not like making him coach would be a guarantee of success.
How did he do with Messi, Neymar and Mbappe He's basically the right guy to usher us into the era of playing modern attacking football as the protagonist, instead of bunkering & countering and counting on "wanting it". Not the only guy. Maybe Nancy for the 2030 cycle can build on it - I'm interested to see if he gets the Celtic job, but that's a discussion for 2028. Greg wanted to do the same, following USSFs blue print that. they started touting around 2010, but had no idea how to teach those details. If you give him guys in MLS that have learned it elsewhere, like South Americans on xAM cash, he can kind of run it. People have touched on things like Poch can improve the little details for our players but they're adult professionals, their development is over. He's not going to help anybody improve terrible technique, - give him the same number of games as Berhalter, and Zardes is still a human rebounding wall. But finding guys with the minimum required technical ability, and improving their personal tactictal understanding - He's our huckleberry. That's exactly what his predecessors couldn't. It's one thing to see a rondo and think it's keep away. It's another to to see a rondo and know that. you can teach how to move without the ball, how to shape your body when recieving so even though youre as slow as Gio, you can appear to be quicker because you don't have to receive the ball, look up, turn your body, make the *OH CRAP the marker who grew up playing like this has taken the ball from you * - how to weight your passes correctly, etc. During one of Arena's Mea Coping interviews he said something like "we do the same drills they do in Europe". Again, are you playing keep away, or are you teaching your players how to play a style of soccer where they prioritize having the ball and being in control? It matters.
You and I both know that when we run into Spain or France or Argentina in the World Cup, we're going to put 10 men behind the ball. But I don't think we'll do that if we play Japan. Bruce might've. We'll probably play proactive attacking football against 2 of our 3 group opponents, maybe all three.
Man - I don't think we will. I don't think we'll be running overloads on the right side. I think we will play more conservative. For example, we may play a real 3/5 ATB - Joe Scally ain't getting forward much. Tanner Tessman isn't playing the whole game in the opposing box. But I really can't see Mauricio Pochettino parking the bus and sending three man counter attacks forward. We'll play reasonably aggressive, try to hold possession, attack with five and counterpress. We will add a sixth sometimes. Poch doesn't know any other way and I think he will 100% believe we can beat them if we just believe and work. Like, we're not going to be dumb but I don't think we're bunkering if that's what you meant. Agree with this. And this is sort of what I meant. Berhalter still played aggressive defense and tried to control possession. But even before the World Cup we had eliminated the free 8s making attacking runs into the box. We attacked with five and that's it. As soon as we got any lead into the second half, we bunkered and countered. He sort of split the difference; aggressive defense, very conservative offense.
I think its also really important to step back and recognize that its only been a little more than a year since Poch's first camp. And he came in with little knowledge of the player pool. Normally, a coach would have been in the post for three years already........................... I'll judge Poch by the result of the World Cup and not the year of trying to figure things out. It does seem that after the year, things are starting to come together. He's picked his players for the most part, and tactics that suit them. That first year seems to have been a lot of exploring. Now its go time.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here…dangerous I know but I think I’m pretty safe with this one…that the poster was trying to point out that two players whom everyone on this board knew, or should have known…were at the very top of our pool got bottom of the pool minutes under Poch…meaning that Poch shouldn’t be getting credit for what should have been obvious. Is it a good argument as it relates to these two players? I’m not sure as I have little interest in reviewing the callups over the last year and analyzing their injury status around those windows for these two players. Generally I do think this argument highlights an observation, or probably better stated a perception I have on most of the coaching debates I’ve observed on these boards. A group of posters seem to defend the manager against any and all criticism. Those critical of the manager suggest x,y and z and wonder how the manager can’t see it. Eventually the manager tries x, y or z. If unsuccessful…those who criticized and wanted it ghost the issue. If successful…they quote themselves. The same happens the other way…as those that defended the coach not doing x,y or z suddenly give him credit for doing the very same thing they’ve criticized other posters for suggesting. rinse and repeat….only the names change.