Fire Pochettino Thread

You're supposed to read your own quoted post for context and then my reply... hope that helps.

 

I think even some of us dumbasses thought that with two attacking full-backs and no clear "commanding" CB we'd be better off switching to a back 3.

 

There is also a world in which a coach takes some time to evaluate his players in real games and then devises a tactical formation to fit what he sees as consistent strengths, especially when, for the most part, the games that are being played are friendlies or low-stakes competitions.

Not saying Poch couldn't have figured this out faster, or even that some of us who have watched the US pool with meticulous attention to every player couldn't have thought this was a good idea first, but in my book adjusting to the reality of the pool and the style as you actually play games is not a terrible thing either.

Also, btw, I'm not 100% convinced we're really there yet, or even close, either. While the improvement has been obvious and welcome - both in results, and, more importantly, how the team plays together and the aggressive, direct, but not predictable offensive transition/attack - and the consistency is encouraging, there's some defensive issues that are still dangerous, relying on Ream at his age (or one player at any age) is potentially problematic, etc.

Wins/Tie against decent teams is very encouraging, but I hope we can sew up a few more of the tatters by June.

 

It wasn't a back 3 last night. At times it looked like it because we were using the left flank so much. Pochettino's in post match said it was a 4-2-3-1.

 

Glad you brought this up. Someone last week said Ream was cooked and backed up by saying he'd lost speed and could no longer hit long passes. I was specifically looking for proof and I didn't see it. He hit several long on target passes. I do think (as with probably every player) he is better with a bit more time. Did having Tessmann there who also can hit those help him? Shrug. I have noticed that pretty much every player now is able to keep possession at least decently and make quick, accurate passes (not 100%). A lot of the players are also pretty good at turning with the ball on their feet. Maybe why Musah isn't needed as much. It will be fascinating to see how his ends up and who keeps their chair when the music stops. Oh and the defensive goofs should lessen when the actual starters get to work with each other in pre-camp and games. Should get better as the tournament goes on. Hope we don't play a really good team first.

 

Fotmob gave Arfstem motm. We should trust in Poch.

 

How can Arfstem be MOM with that haircut?

 

In post match interview a reporter asked about Arfsten in a gushing kind of way and wanted him to comment about Arfsten's wonderful use of a step-over to beat his man. Poch first responded in his heaviest Argentinean accent "I don't know what you talk about" and then said some nice things about Arfsten before concluding how he lost the ball three times near the end of the game when he should have just played "simple". Reminded me of when I played with some South Americans and if you lost the ball dribbling or something there would be a loud cry out " seeemple!". Anyway, what was the reporter trying to get with his question? That such things are rarely seen in Argentina?

 

I think Berhalter's methodology could deliver an upset but I agree 100% about upside. I'd add in that I'm especially happy with Pochettino because this is a strategic progression even if it fails.

I was violently anti-Marsch not because I think he's a terrible coach, but because I think it is a step back for the program and for the direction of soccer in this country. That sounds grandiose, but at some point USSF needs to make a commitment to style of play that emphasizes trust in a high skill level, high level of control and an aspiration to next level play.

It's not that we can't play pragmatic in an individual game, but the repeated calls for a return to a counter attacking style or to Red Bull USA in the Marsch format create stagnation and send the wrong message.

Whether we are good enough or not to pull it off, we should play like we eventually want to play -- which is with a high level of skill, control and aggression.

Bradley tried it and pulled back. Klinsmann tried it and pulled back. Berhalter tried it and pulled back as well. Then he tried it again and got fired.

That seems like the message is stop trying, but it's not. It's get better. That's why Poch is great for us -- the dude is full on belief. You may think he's crazy but he thinks that Cristian Roldan can play in a team that plays aggressive, one touch possession attacking football ... and he's being proven right.

That's the most stunning thing for me -- not that Dest and Reyna are working out in this but that guys everyone have written off are also working out.

There's coaching voodoo there we can't know how or why. But he's clearly finding places for players to excel even in questionable areas of their game. It won't always work, for sure.

But the sharp contrast for prior coaches is at some point, they pulled the trigger and pulled back. Berhalter not only went MMA but stopped his CBs from crashing the box and started Josh Sargent. Some of that was arguably necessity ... and so I get the decision...

... Will Poch be the guy, either through his own work or his players improving ... to not have to do that?

And even if we fail, I think it sends a signal to every American soccer player about the dual priorities that it takes to make Poch's system work: you absolutely need skill, and you absolutely need to work your ass off. Both of them.

I love it.

Yes to the first statement, for sure. I mean, you don't have to go far to find me being very excited over the last couple of windows not on results but on clear progression. I'm bought in that there's a plan and it's working.

But also, our personnel it what it is, and Poch is definitely taking risks. That's what he does -- if you didn't read the great article about his assistant, it's illuminating. I like it, but let's not pretend that it can't blow up on us.

And let's not pretend that prior coaches didn't also understand a lot of things but simply made the more common coaching choice.

This is always an interesting debate, but I don't know if I agree. We also really didn't do Berhalter's passive mid block past 2019 and before the 2nd cycle -- that was a much more aggressive defense in that game.

It's unproveable either way, but I also think we absolutely could have won that game. It's completely different if Christian sinks that shot.

I think I tend to have a lot of respect for most of these coaches, and tend to think that a lot of what people criticize in coaching is less to do with what the coach knows or intended and far more to do with the realities of execution by the players and the execution of the opposing players.

I think Berhalter's a pretty good coach and I actually think that straight tactically, he's a pretty good coach.

I think the biggest gap with Pochettino is actually around mindset and belief and how that translates to how the players execute on the field.

The article I mentioned talked about how Perez got hired. When one of his teams was struggling in defensive midfield, the discussion was around if they dropped an attacker to protect against it. But Perez suggested instead that they should move up a CB into the space and attack more!

That's what Poch loved and impressed him. That's Poch -- and it cascades into belief that his players can execute things they may not even think they can do. An analyst like Berhalter takes his assessment of his players and plans around it ... I think Poch's first instinct is to get the player to play better.

I think that cascades into philosophy. Poch is super aggressive, believing that his often undermanned defense can cover. Sometimes it doesn't work. But it comes from a place where he knows it'll be amazing if everyone covers and guys sprint back every time, etc. Believe.

I don't really think the high level placements and movements are all that different than Berhalter. The aggression, belief, acceptance of mistakes, etc. are.

It's also entirely likely / possible that Poch and staff are bringing a ton of the little things like technique, minor positioning, ways to think about decision making better, etc. I don't know how we know that.

We really only see top level stuff.

And that all said ... Coaches only have so much control. Poch has a better pool than '22 Berhalter and home field advantage. To be a "win" in results, he has to make the quarterfinals and even then, he's got a substantial edge in starting point.

It's a tough sport.

 

There's been some tinkering in both personnel and aspects of the tactics, but we've been playing with a pseudo - 3 ATB way back since Poch started and it's been the de facto element of the system for the vast majority of games.

The first window we played Yunus Musah in a hybrid wingback role with Ream, McKenzie and Scally all on the field.

At one point early on, we flipped it and put Jedi in the midfield in something similar.

We also played with one CAM versus two, but in all but one game our build up had 3 ATB (one time I think Johnny was playing at dropping back?).

In the Nations League, Scally started in this same role against Panama and got forward a bit, but far less than yesterday. Against Canada, he did the same thing.

In the Gold Cup, we continued -- mostly Freeman not getting forward at all. The big difference there wasn't the fake 3 ATB but since we were undermanned, we put a CM at RW and basically abandoned width until late in the GC.

The biggest differences I've really seen in terms of tactical changes isn't having just 3 ATB -- it's the midfield applying much more pressure on ball and attacking, and it's the changes in cover scheming to protect the wide attackers better.

The 3 ATB / fake 3 ATB helps enable that, but we've actually been doing most games.

 

It was a four at the back. In defense, we played four at the back. And neither Freeman nor Scally were shy about getting forward.

Just because in the build out Arfsten gets high quickly and Scally stays on the back line mostly until the ball is progressed ... that's not a back three. Scally wasn't even stay at home yesterday, though that role often has been.

 

it’s not remotely Euro magic pixie dust shit, are you being willfully obtuse?

Every single team in the world would take Poch in a heartbeat over any other manager we’ve ever had. He’s a proven commodity.

Am I in the twilight zone? Name the manager we’ve ever had that you think is better than Poch.

Unless you are snorting the most rah rah USA nativist we don’t need no foreigners shit I’ve ever seen, you can’t actually be serious.

 

Tgere was no massive tactical change that was obvious to you and he took too long to make. Cool story though.

 

You included some random ass Reddit post that got nothing to do with anything, try again.

 

It’s the same shape he played for months before with Scally in that role before moving on from him and eventually replacing him with a more out and out CB, but it isn’t this massive tactical change y’all seem to be making it into.

We did directly mirror the more traditional back 3 systems of SK in the second half and then Japan.

I get it though, Poch was the dumbass on vacation all this time and we could have saved a lot of time and money going with the collective bigsoccer brain trust and their superior understanding of the domestic landscape.

My bad.

 

Whoa, supermod with the hard tackle, setting the tone!

The way we are playing now is impossible to define in these terms. I mean, soccer is a flowing game, so thats at least a little true for any team. But it’s really extreme for us.

 

I think objectively he’s the best manager we’ve had but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be the manager who gets the best results.

 

Can't count on ridiculous 02 lucky nonsense, so yeah. This kind of goes without saying IMO.

That said, I'm a big proponent of giving credit for having done it. That matters hugely to me, so what the 02 team did, lucky or not (they got a lot of luck), was incredible.

 

I’d prefer a coach who could’ve delivered at least one of the trophies available in 2025 while simultaneously working his way through the pool to find his World Cup squad. Six million a year should get you regional silverware and an impressive World Cup run imo.

 

I would also note that we saw a vast improvement in the team when Balogun finally got healthy. That difference hasn't been brought up in this discussion, and he wasn't super active today, but there's really no doubt that the offense looks different with him.

 

Yes of course. First round opponent whose number we had as well, how often you get your rival who you've turned the corner on in your first knockout game?

Could argue unlucky in Germany game, obviously. But pretty lucky to be there in the first place.

 

Loud hyperbole? From the person that started with the tired Euro Magic Pixie dust accusations?

I’ve had to just restate my very simple and straightforward points as you aren’t engaging with or acknowledging them and have been choosing to put words in my mouth and then argue with yourself.

I never said Poch’s the second coming or responsible for every good untying that happens lol. I’m insisting he’s competent and hasn’t been on vacation since taking this job.

it’s that ridiculous hyperbole that’s been soberly and seriously respected throughout this thread.

I don’t know what to tell you about the assertion that Bruce Arena is a better manager than Pochettinho be cause he did very very well in 02, Poch’ led a team to a CL final.

I’ve already said I don’t know if Poch is the best fit for this job at this time or if he will be successful because I’ve simply been insisting he’s competent, had a plan and not been on vacation since taking this job.

What I like about him is that he has a proven track record of making nuanced adjustments early and often during games, that often result in advantages for his teams. I also like that in his stops that most resemble this US team imo, like Espanyol and Southampton, he galvanized less talented or resourced teams to punch above their weight.

I also like that he performed well with in the champions league, which is the closest approximation of a tournament environment like the WC that you can get in club coaching.

You’ve said he’s not SAF or Klopp, inferring you know that if someone says Klopp is a better manager than Arena they are making a simple statement of fact… right?

I’d think you could easily see that there are tiers here and Pochettinho is far closer to Klopp or SAF than Arena or any other manager we’ve had, no?

But SAF also puts his pants on one leg at a time… so I guess that means I’m wrong.