Fire Pochettino Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by wixson7, Aug 14, 2024.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m quoting all these because this is old school bigsoccer, where people would intelligently debate different perspectives without strawmanning others’ arguments, or taking extreme views just for the hell of it.
     
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  2. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t know if the timing for Man U will work in terms of when they end up firing Amorim but I could see him there next if it does line up. Or back to Tottenham at some point. Newcastle is another one if Howe were to get poached.
     
  3. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The other thing about PSG is he had a front three of great players who refused to do any work defensively at all. Which isn’t really workable in the modern game. You can get away with maybe one player who doesn’t do the work defensively but not all three. And it’s why Luis Enrique wanted to clear out Messi and Neymar when he took over. He thought he could do Mbappe to do the work but when he couldn’t and he moved on too that’s when PSG really took off.

    The other thing about a job like PSG is they are so dominant in France that it’s not seen as much of an accomplishment to win the league but like any knockout tournament there’s a large element of randomness and variance. See Tuchel or Ancelotti not winning at PSG either or Pep having only won a single champions league at Man City.
     
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  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can see United making an approach next summer. United are top of Premier League 2 and Poch is the perfect man to bring those players through. He made Dele Alli what he was 6 years ago.
     
  5. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well they won today but not sure how much longer Amorim has. Lots of chatter they’d move for Glasner if they made a move in the short term. Whereas Pochettino would need a move to happen closer to the end of the season.
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Duuuuuuuuuuude………
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Poch's reputation from long before the US was basically this: most players love him. They think he's a very good communicator in terms of tactics and what to do, and he (at club) always took time to get to know the players as a person.

    That said, he also drew really rigid lines and was more like a father figure than a coworker. For example, the coaching staff didn't go into the locker room -- that was the players' space without the coaches. People definitely communicated in a hierarchical way -- through the assistants then up to him.

    And he was NOTORIOUS for not telling people why they were benched. It's universally the one big complaint players had about him at more of his stops. It's the one reason why some players didn't like him.

    So yeah, nothing new here.
     
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  8. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I think it's more a case of the coach's responsibility is performance and results, and the journo's responsibility is to dig, and find out information that's of interest to the public (the scuffed podcast with a journo from yesterday was really insightful, the guy (Doug Mac I think) made a point of illustrating that he ruffled Poch's feathers, but he also got us more information about how the coach handles communication with players than literally any presser or interview has gotten us since Poch was hired, and more too (in the former case, he was referring to the fact that Poch isn't interested in direct communication with players unless the players show the willingness to sit down and talk it out with him AND that the vast bulk of communication on players and what's going on with them, instead of going on w/the players, goes on with the TD's or HC's, and Assistants at their clubs instead, which is something we had no idea of until the presser).

    If I'm a fan of the team in club sports, I really don't give a ---- what the press wants, I want the coaches doing the stuff that is most likely to generate the best long term results. The National Team is a bit different, and a bit weirder, but I think I feel more or less the same way, I'll enjoy stories, or post mortems like after Couva, but again, I'm a fan of the team, not the journey, I don't care one way or the other about the journo beyond benefiting sometimes from interesting stories they write.
     
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  9. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Former French star Thierry Henry experienced what he calls the “old-school” custom: “You speak when you’re in your national team.” Former England defender Jamie Carragher, speaking on the same Zoom call with reporters last month, said: “I mean, I didn’t even think (then-England manager) Sven-Goran Eriksson knew who I was.”



    "Roldan, meanwhile, never spoke with Pochettino, and told The Athletic last month: “I didn’t know if I was even on the radar.” But he kept grinding, proving himself as an unheralded MLS star, and out of nowhere, three days into the September camp, a call finally came. A month later, Roldan is back with the group, because his behavior impressed Pochettino, on the field and off it.

    “I didn’t know Cristian,” Pochettino said. But in a span of six days, Roldan became a “good example of how you need to want to be involved and defend and fight for your place.”
     
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  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't think such a complete lack of communication is the general right way to go ... but there's definitely an interesting undertone that they clearly are communicating even less than their personal preferences because of their perception of the player base' attitude towards the team.

    I particularly think it is telling that fans, media and players think they are owed a call as to why they didn't get in but don't actually call themselves. As if prior call ups entitle them to another call up and it's on the coach to explain to the player why they weren't there.

    On one hand ... it seems to me a it's a nice courtesy and can help the player improve where they need be. On the other hand, why the hell aren't the players calling?

    If you can't pick up the phone, there has to be a reason. Either you simply don't care enough to overcome simple inertia, embarrassment or whatever other reason, or you don't want to hear the answer.

    For all the angst over a guy like Joe Scally not getting called in ... Joe can't even shoot off a text or a call.

    Little tests like this are a bit shitty in some ways, but also ... holy crap, did you fail the test. I mean, the whole freaking team. No one left out is calling in? I get someone who wasn't even in the pool recently like a Roldan, but Yunus Musah is giving interviews that he wants to make the 2026 team but also isn't calling the coach asking why the hell he isn't here? I know kids these days hate talking to people, but suck it up, dude.

    And if the distance -- which actually does seem more than he does at club -- destroys some of the familiarity and expectations .,.. I can see where that would lead to more professionalism and focus if the group had simply gotten too comfortable.

    And I don't just mean "too comfortable" in the sense always of not getting called in. I was never afraid of getting fired in my career, but I definitely worked differently when I wanted to make a great impression versus once I knew I had built up credit.
     
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  12. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the key thing is the lack of communication is very deliberate and not the coaching staff mailing it in and not taking the job seriously. It may or may not be the right approach but it’s very much a stylistic thing. It’s also a very dramatic shift from Berhalter and more recent US coaches so can see how that would be jarring.

    It’s also notable that they are spending a ton of time actually talking to clubs and coaches.
     
  13. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, maybe I misinterpreted, but I thought Poch said somewhere he doesn’t reach out to avoid complications, like someone saying he called so and so to explain but not me, wtf? I hadn’t really thought of that, it makes sense.
     
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  14. SoccerFanInIA

    SoccerFanInIA Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Oct 28, 2021
    He mentioned the fact that when you tell somebody what they need to do to make it next time, it can be conflicting cause maybe the player started doing such and such but dropped in another category. I believe he started talking wacky that too.
     
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  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If they start doing something at club level because their national coach recommends it, the club that's paying them a 7 figure salary may not be too happy.
     
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  16. SoccerFanInIA

    SoccerFanInIA Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Oct 28, 2021
    Yes and no. It could just be “play harder”, then that’s not counterproductive to anything a coach is going to say, but if it’s like “press harder” and the team they play for is a sit back and counter type, then yeah that’ll be a problem obviously.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    or “I need to see how you can impact play in a less advanced role” or “Do you think you have the passing characteristics necessary to play in a back 3?” or….
     
  18. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    He's just a lazy bum. Why waste energy asking about Roldan who is easily one of the top Americans in MLS, or talk to anyone? But a very talented bum.
     
  19. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  20. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
  21. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Besides wasting time on Roldan this is probably his best squad.
     
  22. aerez

    aerez Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    off topic

    Does the DM system still work like it use to before? Or did it change long time ago?
     
  23. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
  24. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not going to have a better encapsulation of the uselessness of the coach-press-fan "relationship" than this.

    Who the ******** cares. He's doing PR.

    Do yourself a favor, stop caring about press statements and soundbites. This is probably good advice in general, not just for sports. Looking for genuine meaning or insight in that area is a waste of your time.
     
  25. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Except when Ted is talking to Trent.
     

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