Interesting stuff in that article. It also makes me fearful of how it may play out at the World Cup. 2002 had some real difference makers in MLS - Mathis LD Beasley McBride Pope Mastroeni - not sure we have much of that level of talent currently.
My Donovan take. 1. I thought he was entitled to his time off, just as I thought CP was entitled to his this year. Who has done more for the USMNT than those two? 2. I thought JK made a huge error in omitting him, and I really don’t like the “you Americans are soft and I will fix that for you” coaching style. 3. While reasonable people can differ in evaluating players, especially across eras, Pulisic seems to me to be a much more accomplished and complete attacking soccer player than Donovan ever was. Unless your only metric is “big World Cup goals,” it’s hard for me to see how Donovan comes out on top in that comparison.
Easy. In one case the manager was willing to tolerate (forgive?) behavior he didn’t like in service of the ability to maximize the future quality of the team. In the other, not so much. But Bruce Arena’s opinion has no bearing on mine. Hope that clears things up.
DK can better speak for himself, but I don't think his comparison here is to the talent level of the teams at large, but specifically the MLS guys in each cycle. 2002 had a core of strong MLS players that were very much in line with the talent level of the team. This cycle, there are some good players in MLS, but relying on them would be a step down talent-wise from the core group you are referring to.
. Ok. I misread. On the other hand, how would Jack McGlynn, Seb Berhalter, Diego Luna, Quinn Sullivan, Christian Roldan, Miles Robinson, Max Arfsten and Alex Freeman rate in MLS 2002?
I continue to sympathize with Pochettino over the Gold Cup as it relates to squad composition, because I doubt that too many people were going to be honest with him and explain that it might be difficult to get every player he wanted for the tournament. A manager who came in after the Copa America and wasn't familiar with the rhythms of the US national team was always going to have that difficulty.
Technically, Landon's two successful loans at Everton were his third and fourth times playing in Europe. Just like his hiatus the year after his fourth go in Europe, these arrangements were highly personal choices where he took charge of his own career.
To state the obvious, a team doesn't underperform so drastically without massive issues. Poch hasn't solved the problems he inherited, but he deserves the leeway to try.
Looking back at 2002 more generally, I still see a lot more reasons for optimism than pessimism. Let's consider a few of the MLS-based individuals as they were at the time ... Beasley had talent but was still a raw 19-year-old during the run-up to WC02. Mastroeni had been playing at center back for Miami and was forced to step in at d-mid when the underskilled Armas went down. Despite Mathis scoring his "that's why he's here" goal, he wasn't fit in Korea and never regained his pre-injury form. We can't fairly omit Jeff Agoos from this discussion. He was the worst-case scenario for what Tim Ream might be in WC26. For all of its faults, MLS still has guys who can step up the way Beasley and Mastroeni did in 02, Jimmy Conrad in 06, Yedlin in 14, etc. They can be the workers who complement the Euro-based star talent, which is better than anything we've had before.
I find it an interesting topic. I would try and imagine starters at each position for both teams being swapped. How would they look at the other's team? At the moment I lean towards the current team is more talented skill wise but not as strong physically and therefore not as gritty. Can the current squad get stronger as the reach their prime or do they need to try and use their skill in ways the older squad couldn't? Tournaments almost always lean towards defensive teams as that is easier to repeat game after game so relying on skill to outscore is the tougher road. Poch seems to be trying to use the outwork the other team as his defensive answer.
How many teams have enough talent to win on talent alone in 2025-26?I'm not sure,but I know we arent one of them even if we trot out a full strength on form first XI.
I think the problem is the golden generation hasn’t necessarily developed into one. For so many of our guys they haven’t quite hit the higher end potential/outcome that seemed possible when they all started to break out. There’s also just the complete absence of goalies or center backs beyond Chris Richards.
It's very possible that his comfort level at playing in a 3 back line will inform our WC roster and formation.
In 2002 there were multiple players that today would almost certainly have been starting in Europe (like Donovan and Pope) but weren't because of personal preferences and I would imagine, the level of hospitability Europe was to MLS players in that era (1989-2000's or thereabouts (I think attitudes started to change 2003-2009)). The reality is, a large chunk of the MLS guys were legit very good players of the sort that would have had careers over there with some exceptions (Llamosa's talent wasn't discovered until very late, Agoos was old at that point etc). Today in MLS, typically, only 2 types of domestic players of international quality can be found in MLS: 1. Young Players who haven't gotten in position to leave yet. 2. Young Players who received a contract and wages so large, that a transfer is largely impossible (Robinson, Ferreira etc). Beyond those guys, the vast majority of domestics simply aren't at that level, period. This is part of the reason we still, even in this day and age, find the MLS vs Euro Fairy Dust argument. Because, for the most part, it's true. If you're good enough for Europe you almost always are better, w/the above two exceptions.
McGlynn, Luna, Roldan, Robinson (pre injury) would rate really high, to me anyway. Seb has one half season of quality, so we need more sample size, he's never been identified as a quality player, let alone a quality youth player at any point until this spring. Quinn is having a bit of a breakout the past 16 months so maybe him too. I think Roldan was highly rated in his youthful early prime, not sure about Arfsten , Freeman is kind of a relatively more modern kind of MLS player, in that he's a raw high ceiling, semi-low floor guy in that Reynolds kind of cohort, where the potential is huge, but there's a ton of volatility.. Honestly, all of those guys would have been exciting back then other than Seb, and maybe Arf. Remember Santino Quaranta? Justin Mapp, Bobby Convey etc? We got excited about the young upside prospects and the obvious studs of the Pope and Donovan Sort.
You must know that there was a world of difference between how European teams viewed US players in the early MLS days vs how they look at US players these days.
I would disagree with this statement - there are lots of European based players that aren't clearly better than MLS options.
The Champions League is also different these days. As is the quality of some leagues like Italy. (But as discussed, that wasn't really my point.)
MLS pays salaries now that are, in some cases, better than any league except the Top 4/5 and the Championship (which is closer to commensurate), and the peak salaries can compete even with the Top 4/5. Which means that there's definitely players that can absolutely be in a 3 deep depth chart even if Badge FC were to apply (and it certainly isn't that reliable). We have 0 Top 4/5 GKs. We have 2 Top 4/5 CBs, and one is borderline. We have 1 Top 4/5 LB. We have 1 Top 4/5 RB and one who could be ... but the one who is is borderline. We have 1 Top 4/5 Solo 6. We do have like 6 Top 4/5 CMs ... but one is definitely borderline and no one will play two of the better ones in the middle. We have 2 Top 4/5 wingers, but one plays RWB most of the time. We have 1 Top 4/5 Striker and maybe one guy who could be. And so on... The words international quality are meaningless in the context you are trying to use them -- you have to bring a full team and we can't fill a roster. Past this group -- and frankly not including at least two to three of them who I'll take even money on not being in this group in a year or two -- it doesn't matter if you are young, MLS players are perfectly capable of being as good as anyone else. Matt Freese is our #1. Tim Ream is at LEAST our 3rd best CB, and probably our second. Cristian Roldan looks like our second best Solo 6. Yes, some guys that are in the mixer are young and have left or will leave soon -- Pat, Alex Freeman, etc. -- but (a) there's guys outside that group deserving of a roster spot now because our depth is not as good as people think (b) we're rapidly coming up on the scenario where people start to take even bigger money to stay or more often, come back to MLS. MLS is already pretty much about the 7th highest paying league, really, if you are good. As they expand payrolls, which is slow but inevitable, it's just going to keep moving.
I think if you compared the best American talent in MLS today to the best in 2002, you'd find one overwhelming difference, age. The average age of MLS players in the 2002 World Cup squad was 27.9. Most of the outfield players Poch has called up recently are in the 21 to 25 age range. They're not as "grizzled".
It's not true because you are using the word "Europe." That means dudes like Matt Hoppe, Ian Harkes, Chris Durkin, Andriya Novakovich, Erik Palmer-Brown, etc., etc. need to be in your data set for the words "For the most part, it's true." That's not even getting into complete busts like Sebastian Soto. No one has an issue saying that Christian Pulisic is better than any American in MLS, or Gio Reyna, if he tried, etc. But you that's not what people argue. What people argue is that Konrad de la Fuente should have been on rosters because Europe and Barcelona when he was like 18. Or to bring it more relevant, that Josh Sargent is amazing when guys with similar stats in MLS aren't good enough ... I think what we've seen is that scoring in the Championship is not what people think. We have only a few guys who are clearly far and away better than the players in MLS. It's a small percentage of our players "in Europe." Then we have a few guys who aren't any better but are there because there was potential or someone took a swing. Bryan Reynolds is a good example of this -- he's not better than MLS RBs but he was young and there was a run on players especially from FC Dallas. Aidan Morris is a good player -- he's remarkably similar to Cristian Roldan. But he's younger, so he's in Europe and Roldan is not, so he's in America. We have about 10 guys who have earned with performance, not potential, a spot in a better league than MLS to the level that I think they are reliably better than their counterparts. That's about it.