FIRE PAYNE and KASPER

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

agreed this season is unacceptable

17-23-6 is unacceptable.

i hope the first team goes out on wednesday.


I hope Friday morning, the changes start.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

Soehn clearly did well with Nowak's team last season, and this season showed more of what he was about.

See ya, Tom. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

I have been a DC United supporter since day 1, and given what Kevin Payne has helped secure for us, we would have to have about 50 more seasons of misery before I called for his head. To do so now is complete lunacy. I don't care to comment one way or another right here on Soehn and Kasper, but I do have to answer someone calling for getting rid of Kevin. To address your two basic points, I would say that:

a) Kevin Payne had a pretty good (though not great) offseason last year. Not every move worked out, but on the whole the moves were fairly defensible. Remember too that we nearly got one of the best goalies in MLS. Unfortunately that one fell through, and we certainly suffered badly at GK for the first half. But there was a period in June and July when we were firing on all cylinders and were the class of the league. That was KP's doing. The fact that the injury bug decimated our squad at the worst possible time is hardly his fault.

b) anyone who has followed the stadium saga at all would recognize the superhuman efforts KP has made, and the superhuman things he has actually achieved on that score. What, you say? We don't have a stadium. true, but the fact we have gotten as close as we have is a testament to everything Kevin has achieved in the face of huge obstacles. As much as anyone, Kevin was responsible fr one of the most important pieces of the puzzle to fall into place -- namely, for the feds to deed the Poplar Point land to DC. Is it KP's fault that the Fenty administration has acted in despicably bad faith in their dealings on Poplar Point?

Throw Soehn and Kasper and Ashton and others to the wolves, but to suggest tossing out Payne is an insult to everything he has done for us. Without Kevin Payne, there would be no DC United. Think about that. Along with Bruce Arena, Marco Etcheverry, and possibly Jaime, there is no one other than KP who comes close to Kevin's importance for this storied franchise.

To show I am no mere butt-kisser, go back and check the things I wrote about our front office's shameful performance in early 2005, when we did nothing to prepare the team for the CCC though knowing we would be without Nelsen and Stewart. Remember starting Van Sicklen and Boswell in Mexico City, guys who had never played a minute of pro ball in their lives? That was criminal negligence on the part of our F.O., and much of that surely lies with KP. I might have been the most critical person on these boards about that atrocity. But while I certainly reamed KP for that, I could hardly call for him to be sacked. Because I remember what had happened the previous November. And I remembered what happened in 1999. And 1998. And 1997. And 1996. Those things have earned Kevin a few passes in my book, and I gave him one in 2005 after the CCC disaster.

This year, Kevin doesn't need one. He did his job, and then some. This has surely been a disappointing year, but by and large KP and the front office did their job to give us the players to field one of the best (if the not THE best) teams in the league.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

Even before this season, I have that Payne/Kasper were more of a hindrance than a help.

To be fair, however, the front office's decisions since the beginning of this season have pretty good. They dumped some of their off-season acquisitions when it was clear that they wouldn't produce. And they picked up several players who were useful and may be useful in the future. I almost wondered whether there was a change in the decision-making process. If you told me one person made the off-season decisions and someone else made the seasons since then, I would be inclined to believe you. Or that the decision process changed (they consulted the managing partners, perhaps?)

I still think the managing partners have to re-assess what they want in the front office and I would be inclined to clean house and start over.

Nevertheless, bottom fishing -- to find useful players among the league's discards is one thing. Locating real talent and developing it is something else. DCU has been a complete failure in recent years in finding really talented young players and bringing them along.

Once DCU dumps some or all of the high-priced failures on the current roster and eases the old and injured onto the bench, it will have to upgrade the roster. Among the players on the roster are certainly several who could play on a strong team, but real quality is missing. (Having watched Donovan play in the Home Depot Center against DCU, I can see the difference a truly gifted player can make.)

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

Hold on to Simms, Tino and Janicki. Clean house on the rest....

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

I still think DC United has one of the best FOs in MLS. There's a reason that Tradition is written on the back of our jerseys, just look at our trophy case. This year they got impatient and tried to buy a good team. I think the lesson has been learned and this won't happen again, I trust our FO. However, some things we haven't improved, like actually using our draft picks. Hopefully attitudes will change, if Kasper has to go, so be it, but Payne ain't going anywhere.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

Kevin Payne is untouchable, and should be. He's one who I hope will be with DCU for the rest of his life (God grant a long and healthy one, especially now that he quit the cancer sticks.) I hope to go to my grave with KP at the helm.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

After the season ends Wednesday I hope they cool down, think things out and wait at least a couple weeks before doing anything personnel wise.

Also agree with what AQ, Chico and Dr. Woo say re: Kevin Payne.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

There's a baby in that bathwater!

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

My guess is the decision on Soehn is a done deal, regardless of what that decision actually is (e.g. keep or sack).

I'm sure the powers-that-be knew a while back what his fate would be if they didn't make the playoffs.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

Perkins
Boswell
Burch
McTavish
Khumalo
Janicki... etc. etc.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

Agreed but he has to be held accountable for the "SA 5" this last off season as well. 0 for 5 IMHO

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

I agree. But the truth is, you can say that about every club in the league. The hit ratio on SA players is really NOT that good. United have done better than most.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

The key point in the stadium saga occurred several years ago, when it became clear that DCU's timetable was unrealistic. The situation at Poplar Point proved a great deal more complicated than the front office imagined at first. It was at that point that Payne should have recognized that a stadium was more than a few years away (if it was possible at all) and that his relationship with the Williams administration counted for nothing because the key decisions by the District were going to be made in another mayor's administration. It was then that DCU should have started looking in the suburbs for another location. Pouring more effort into a lost cause is not a reason for celebration, but a testimony to folly and probably arrogance. Blaming Fenty is silly. Building a stadium offers him nothing, politically or economically. Blame Payne, if you must blame someone, because he failed to recognize and react properly to the timing issue.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

Payne has had too good of a track record to let go. Without him, a lot of us wouldn't be posting on bigsoccer today. He should and will definitely stay.

That stated, he goofed up this year. Most of our big expensive signings were busts. He also goofed up big time about 5 or 6 years after we won our first MLS Cup when he made wholesale changes to the team. Our tema sucked for two and a half seasons after that. You just can't have that kind of turnover in a league where budgets are so limited. Chelsea can do it. We can't.

But I think he and our management are smart and realize the mistakes they made. Right now, I would take him over any other GM in the league.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

I am as gutted as anyone -- except perhaps the guys who went to Columbus -- which I would have done if I could have. I remember the trip back from the swamp this year, and it was a long, long trip home. Still, if we're in the firin' mode, at least lets understand where we are...

- Chico is right, Payne OWNS part of the team, so he'd be firing himself. Not real likely. Plus, someone better would have to replace him. Need a better plan before you convince me that the FO should be flushed.

- Also, to those of you that have said that Tommy did a good job -- or as good a job as was do-able -- with a tough situation given injuries, etc., there's some truth in that too.

- Last, for everyone that says re-making the team takes time, you'll get no argument here. Many of us expected the first part of the season to be rough with the addition of so many new faces and the change in our #10. Anyone who thought this was going to be an easy season was sniffing glue.

That said, we need to go beyond blame and figure out what really happened. Some of this is the result of decisions by the FO, some is Tommy's (and the coaching staff's) and some is the result of simple changes in the league.

For the FO, its clear that they bit off more than they could chew in all the changes at the beginning of the year. The acquisitions were mostly mediocre -- I give Gallardo an "incomplete", as he was so good when on the field but not nearly on the field enough. The others including Peralta and Martinez were just not good enough to merit their additional pay. That said, this is the same FO team that brought in Gomez, Fred, Emilio and the team that made MAJOR mid-season corrections that should help us over time if we keep them and develop them. Guerrero, Vide, Crayton, Doe, Khumalo and Janicki really did well down the stretch. Not well enough, but considering they weren't even on the roster at the beginning of the season, it was a pretty good job by the FO to clean up for what was mostly a FU in SA. Final grade, C.

For Tommy, amigo, sometimes its just not in the cards. We didn't get the reinforcements early enough to keep Rod off the field, but as with Wells, so with you -- you didn't win us games. Injuries happen, but when nearly everyone on the team gets non-impact injuries during the season, that means that the training just isn't good enough. When we seem to run out of gas at the end of every game, that means that the training and motivation isn't good enough. When we come out flat as often as we did this year, that means that the team isn't motivated enough. And when you, as a former defender, can't put a defense on the field that is well organized and plays together -- even if they're not our best squad -- that's with you and the coaches. Motivation, tactics, training were all below good enough. Not a passing grade, even if we'd managed to limp into the playoffs.

Finally a word about where we need to go. In the two prior years we won the SS, and those were impressive teams. They were long on motivation, people played hard (frightened of Nowak?), there was some good leadership and we had some good breaks. But we were 14 man teams. We didn't develop our b team very much and when we needed them they weren't ready. We were slow but skilled, and we won a lot of 1-0 games (and came from behind to tie).

For the future we need to be realistic. The league is at a higher level now. Teams are faster and deeper -- even with the low salary cap. Columbus could bring Noonan off the bench. For a while all we had was Rod. I'm pleased that the league is getting better, and I am mighty pissed we aren't in the playoffs. But we need to become the kind of three dimensional team that is the next level up. Draft better players. Find speed. Coach and train for a 90 minute game. Involve the entire team. Get rid of people that don't cut it.

I'm not sure Churchill could have kept a team fully motivated with all the challenges that DCU faced this year, but I can say that Tommy lost them, and months ago. So lets think about starting fresh next year -- not with a completely new starting team, but with a strong build off of this team, including more speed and better defense.

Its going to be a long off season. But Wednesday there's a game, and everyone should be there.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

I say we bring back Rongen cause he can draft.
Convey
Nelsen
Tino
Namoff

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

I WOULDN'T CHANGE A DAMN THING!

Kevin Payne founded our club. And under his direction we have become the most decorated team in our league's history. He is one of a literal handful of people in football management in this country that truly understands the world game. Only a complete moron would fire him.

Dave Kasper will stay as long as Kevin Payne trusts him. That's all I need to know.

Tom Soehn has won the Supporter's Sheld and the US Open cup in two seasons. He has proven that he can be successful with good, healthy players. But the lack of fitness is a concern. I give him another year.

I think we have a lot of good players on this team. Not great, but good. And with the midseason changes, I think the table is set for next season. There is now competition at EVERY position. Something you could not say the start of this season. Once everyone is healthy, our depth is among the best in the league.

Tweak it if you must. But don't blow it up and start over.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

you could have told this to Payne in Columbus

oh wait.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

First off, as others have stated, Payne ain't going anywhere. He shrewdly kept the sweat equity in the club he got from AEG and parlayed that into a piece of the club under the current ownership group that he helped broker.

Whether he's at fault or not is moot because he earned - literally - the right to own a piece of the team and I don't see him firing himself. (There is a real concern he becomes like a Jerry Jones or Al Davis, but that's a discussion for another day.)

That said, he needs to stand up and say in public that he takes full responsibility for the things that have gone wrong. (He may have already done-so.) He needs to say things will get better or changes will be made.

As for Kasper and Soehn, I think it's all or nothing. I have a hard time laying the blame for this disaster on just one of them. There is, sadly, plenty of blame to go around.

But there's also enough blame that it is easy for one party to lay responsibility for mistakes at the feet of the other. It wouldn't be right to can Soehn but keep Kasper and vice versa.

For the record, I lean towards keeping them both.

Soehn has won a trophy in each of his 2 seasons as head coach. For most MLS teams, that puts him in the club's ring of stars. Seriously. I know the Open Cup and the Shield aren't as prestigious as other trophies the team has missed out on and I know the team underachieved this year. But those 2 trophies, as well as the fact that several of the key problems this year weren't of his doing, buy Soehn another year to right the ship.

Kasper has made some mistakes. The trips to South America have gotten less and less productive. Peralta was an absolute disaster, for instance. Not to mention the midget and the goalie whose mommy vouched for him. And the absolute waste of the top end of the draft the past few years is a blight on this organization and, IMO, a key reason for the team's struggles. (Trading a first for Rod Dyachenko? Cracka please!)

But, he's also the guy who went out and got Emilio and Fred and used his connections to get Boyzzz and Konicki, who look like diamonds in the rough. So, I give him more time, too. But the draft has to get better and there need to be fewer gaffes with the international players.

Having said all that, I would understand why Payne would can either of them. But I stand by my contention that it can't be one or the other. It's either none or both.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

I doubt that Payne's ownership share guarantees him a role in managing the club. After all, it's a minority share.

 

Re: FIRE SOEHN, PAYNE and KASPER

Payne has such a footprint not just with DCU, but also USSF and American soccer's footprint in the world sport. That's a voice/ club advocat we have that very few, maybe outside the Galaxy, have in MLS.

Payne knows what must be done to get back to winning the MLS Cup. He was there from the beginning and wants another one just as bad as the rest of us.

Kasper doesn't do anything w/o approval from Payne so this is a mute point as to firing him.

Soehn is really the only question here as to whether to fire him or not.

Who would you replace Payne with (ownership not withstanding)? Not much better in US to replace him with...

How 'bout Kasper...he's just an extension of Payne's agenda and his executioner...

But Soehn...I believe there are better candidates out there worth a shot. I like NE's Mariner. (Future Manager: how 'bout a Jessie Marsh when he decides down the road.) How 'bout a Sarachan who knew how to beat DCU, esp in the playoffs and drafted Rolfe, and other productive Fire players? How' bout University of MD's or Wake Forest's coach as a chance for fresh perspective? How 'bout a Richie Williams or give Harksie a chance? Maybe even Robin Fraser...

I'm just saying, with the talent DCU had/has, a number of coaches could have won the Supporters' Shield and US open Cup. To me that's not sayin' much with this talented a team. This team underachieved with it's talent.

A coaching change, drop the Argentines (DP and defender), and focus on building a better central defender combo thru trades, or draft. Lastly, get Ben Olsen healthy!