Fire Olsen

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by DCWarrior, Apr 21, 2013.

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  1. UnitedBorn

    UnitedBorn Member+

    Dec 7, 2015
    301
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I thought Kasper had an actual say in Ben Olsen being coach I'd say he should be fired too.

    As long as we are penny pinchers making GAM for TAM trades Kasper should be in the front office in some capacity. His player selection is terrible but he is a wizard with MLS cap BS.
     
  2. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member+

    DC United
    Mar 22, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think if you trade Zardes for Kamara, Kamara gets Zardes numbers, is what I mean. If you put him on the same team as one of the best assist men in MLS, like, say, Gressel, you ought to have far more opportunities than we've seen. We pulled Flores out of Liga MX, where he was at least an average payer, and at a young age. Arriola's been decent for DC, but frankly, looks better for the Nats - and still I think we all agree is a piece that makes us significantly more threatening. Higuain was running around like an idiot in the last game, which is exactly the opposite of what you want Higuain(!) to be doing. Yamil Asad is in his prime and a year removed from back-to-back better-than-MLS-average displays. Canouse and Moreno have both had statistically-superior stints with us in very recent memory, and with Felipe and Abu, we're deep with average talent there. Mora, Birnbaum, Brillant and Hamid have anchored one of the stingiest defenses in MLS.

    I'll absolutely agree that the ownership's handling of the franchise has been painfully shortsighted and they've been stingy in all the worst ways. But it's the root problem only in that more money will solve just about anything. Adding a few true quality guys is absolutely critical to being a contender, but it's not critical to looking like we didn't just meet over tapas in the locker room every one of the first 15 games of the season... every season. And while it's likely adding those quality guys would have an impact all its' own, as we saw with Rooney's first 3 months here, it's not an either-or situation, as we saw with his last 3 months here.

    It isn't so much a turd as it is a rock. Ain't a diamond, but it'll take a shine. The pieces are all MLS average or slightly better, and still, we very often look like we're trying to find the playbook - any playbook, really. We've got a bunch of proven talent, all underperforming at the same time. They're unfocused. To my mind, that's a problem the coach must solve. Who else they might be better than if they were playing like a team? It's hard to say. :)
     
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  3. PSURoss

    PSURoss Member+

    Sep 30, 2002
    DC Burbs
    A soccer club is so much more than 11 or 14 players. Every player is pushed by the person behind them. Our starting 11 are pushed by no one for their name in the starting lineup and the next 7 are pushed for their name on the roster sheet and the next 3-5 for the jobs with the first team and the rest by the talent on 2nd team and those guys by the U23s and the academy guys and so on. We've never had that kind of depth and that is what MLS3.0 requires. I have stepped in puddles that are deeper than the talent pool we came into 2020 with. You called our worthwhile names and we've maybe got 3 subs.

    Do any of those teams have more/better than us? I don't think so. Did I miss anyone? Again, I don't think so, although the cupboard in NJ looked awfully bare the other night. I don't think there were more than 2-3 names on their 18 who I'd even heard of. They've shipped a lot of talent out the last two years and not really brought anyone notable in.

    Do you see us above a bottom third team, talent wise? I don't.
     
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  4. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    And this is where you would be wrong. As I have said on many occasions Only Hamid on this roster would start for any other decent MLS team, RBMF excluded.
     
  5. UnitedBorn

    UnitedBorn Member+

    Dec 7, 2015
    301
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you are telling me that Julian Gressel who started every game for Atlanta United isn't good enough to start for any other MLS team? Just because you say something doesn't make it true.
     
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  6. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    You're the only one that believes that.
     
  7. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member+

    DC United
    Mar 22, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I totally agree with you on what real depth is, and I believe we're at least making strides there, although we're years away from having it (assuming we make all the right investments). I do think the quality at the end of the bench has gotten better. It's still mainly deck chairs, as Shawn would say, but they're made from teak instead of aluminum piping. The bench has gotten shorter, which has helped with that (sigh). But with MLS's (stupid) salary setup. aside from a handful of the most impactful players on each team we're all in the same boat. Circumstantially and allegedly, DK's one of the better value-finders out there. Maybe he's actually crap, and we're all just drinking the kool-aid, but I don't think so.

    In terms of the wide midfield, wide forward and deep midfield, we have plenty of guys who could challenge for starts there, injuries aside. In the past, we haven't developed that bench presence that other teams have because Ben doesn't like to rotate players. This year, he's been forced to, and, wonder of wonders, we've seen some guys step up and become those players.

    Forward, 10, CB and fullback are deficient areas in either depth or numbers, pretty clearly, but I doubt you'll find a team in MLS whose supporters think their team doesn't have 3 or 4 positions with sub-optimal depth.

    In terms of where we are in MLS talent-wise, I can honestly say, I'm not sure. Guys I think are better than 2/3rds of their counterparts just based on talent? Hamid, Birnbaum, Mora, Canouse, Arriola, Gressel. Guys who would play on 1/3rd of the teams? Asad, Flores, Brillant, Kamara, Moreno, Felipe. Paredes and Pines, and Higuain are making strong arguments against their age peers, who are all getting more time in Covidland. Abu and Segura could also get significant minutes on any number of teams and might start on a few.

    The problem, as I see it, is that we're not getting the talent we have to perform, and until we can do that, we'll never get a clear look at how it matches up against teams who have lots of talent and Olsen-level coaching or teams that use systems that maximize rather than rely on talent. The teams that have it all together, we're not really in competition with, but I think with outstanding coaching (and a normal injury rate) this group could have finished the season as high as 4th in the East. Nobody's really claimed supremacy, aside from perhaps Columbus and Philly - which are, it has not escaped notice, two teams that aren't built around having overwhelming talent.
     
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  8. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What has Gressel done this year??? 1 Goal!! Squat. Right now he would not take the spot of any outside midfielder. We not talking skill set or potential but what have you done. So yes it is true because he has not passed worth a crap. Has 1 goal. Those are facts not opinion.
     
  9. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Um no the rest of MLS does as well.
     
  10. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will say some of the kids would make other rosters, Parades, Yow. But mostly on potential not what they have accomplished.
     
  11. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Where's the proof of that?
     
  12. PSURoss

    PSURoss Member+

    Sep 30, 2002
    DC Burbs
    • Asad - I don't think there are many places that 2020 Asad starts orplays
    • Flores - I don't think we're playing him in the right system or way. I think he might need to be the 2nd option like Titi was last year
    • Gressel - probably ok as long as he never has to go to Florida again
    • Mora - solid, but he's got to play in a 4 man back line
    • Arriola - injured with no back up for what he brings to the lineup
    • Canouse - being used out of place and we gave him a raise while in a 3 man battle for 2 spots that he wasn't winning
    • Filipe - we're so screwed without him. He was a 6 & 8 for us
    • Moreno - has nothing in front of him and that's impacting his current play
    • Birnbaum - doing exactly what we expect from him as long as the 6-7 in front of him don't completely fold
    • Freddy - Is going to be old very suddenly but so far not so bad
    • Kamara - not getting enough service and not finishing enough of the chances he's getting and he's got 2-3 howler type misses
    • Bill - is leaving. DCU is gone from his social media profiles and has been liking some very critical of the team tweets
    • Seitz - in a small sample is delivering what you want from your backup GK. No GK looks good vs Philly with us in front of him that night.
    • The kids - will be all right as long as they aren't losing time to the deck chairs we brought in.
    The biggest issue I see is that we have no true creator in the midfield. We were best last year when Lucho and Titi were sharing the creative load. At present we might only have the complimentary creative piece of the puzzle.
     
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  13. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Gee you are right, Goff reported that Kasper's getting 1000s of calls from other GM's wanting to trade for our guys. Oh the Boateng for Sjoberg trade was a player dump on both sides. They were not jonesing for Boateng.
     
  14. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    I think that this isnt a fair way of looking at it. Goff cant possibly know about every single call of a team that ask about our players.
     
  15. PSURoss

    PSURoss Member+

    Sep 30, 2002
    DC Burbs
    Dude....

    Gressell had high quality players around him in that Atlanta midfield to draw attention and he got to serve balls to Josef Martinez.

    He's never had that here. Not even close. Not even within ICBM range. I don't think one single midfield or forward starter from our line up vs NYC could even make the Atlanta gameday 18 right now. The Covid Cup games were poor from him, but his other performances this season are probably not far from what I'd expect from him with this lineup and absolutely within one standard deviation of where he should be with this cast.
     
  16. UnitedBorn

    UnitedBorn Member+

    Dec 7, 2015
    301
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are wasting your time.
     
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  17. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What has anyone on our team done this year? That can't be the standard. Do you think his play in Atlanta was an anomaly? That he is now the normal Gressel? I don't. Sure he had better players around him but he also had tactics and coaching under Martino.

    No one can succeed under our system, with any configuration of players.
     
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  18. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm confused. Olsen apologists say he's doing the best he can with the subpar roster our cheap owners have given him. Others say a new/better coach would get more out of the roster we have. In neither case do we rise to the level of contenders. However, a benefit of Option 2 is that better players would be more likely to come here, which would lead to a better record, which might encourage more spending on the roster, which would lead to even better results.... You get the picture.

    My point is that sticking with what we have is unlikely to move the needle.
     
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  19. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There was a player in the YA transfer discussion that turned down a move because of a likely loan to DCU.

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/summer-2020-transfer-tracker-thread.2110917/page-2#post-38930151
     
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  20. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member+

    DC United
    Mar 22, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sigh. Co-signed.
     
  22. PSURoss

    PSURoss Member+

    Sep 30, 2002
    DC Burbs
    You can't put 4 good players on a shit roster that's poorly constructed and expect good results from anyone. But I am ready to move on from Ben and the next guy in 2-3 years.
     
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  23. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Believe it or not I am ok with moving on from Ben but again as I have stated before I want a good plan in place, not just "bring in anybody. Anyone will be better than Ben". Most of the names you guys have thrown around do not impress me. Sorry but my standards are higher then he managed Juve, he managed Boca. Most of those guys would come to MLS with it's convoluted system and fail right away.
     
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  24. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh and this roster does suck!!

    Thank you and have a nice day. :)
     
  25. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    No I am saying right this minute Gressel does not start elsewhere. He could work his way into starting but not right now.
     

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