Fire Formation / Lineup (Post draft) Now that the draft is over and there's speculation on who'll make the roster -- see here https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=29326 -- what do you think our formation / starting lineup will look like? Did we pick up anyone in the draft that will have an immediate impact -- like Beasley and Gray have over the last few years? Here's my guess... Given the number of strong central defenders we have, the number of strong defensive midfielders we have and the lack of depth for outside backs and outside mids, I'd say we wind up playing a 3-5-2 formation. Here's my starting lineup. ............ Thornton .... Brown . Curtin . Bocanegra ...... Armas ...... Marsch Whitfield ........................ Beasley ............... Gray ...... Faria ......... Razov On the bench, we have Jaqua, Selolwane, Daniv, Mapp, Pause, Perez, Ring. If we go with a 4-4-2, then it probably looks like this... ............ Thornton Whitfield . Curtin . Bocanegra . Perez .............. Armas Marsch ........................ Beasley ............... Gray ...... Faria ......... Razov On the bench, we'd have Jaqua, Selolwane, Daniv, Mapp, Brown, Pause, Ring. My problem with this (and why I'd go with a 3-5-2) is that we'd have Marsch playing out of position on the right and Brown not playing. I just can't justify keeping them on the roster if they're not starting -- they cost too much. Also, I'd GENERALLY consider them among my best players overall, so I'd rather have a formation which puts them both on the field -- and I don't think that Brown belongs on the field as an outside back -- torch city.
As for the second part of my initial post, who'll have the biggest impact, I'd say it depends. It will depend upon who gets hurt -- note that I'm not saying IF we have injuries -- I'm saying when. If Razov or Faria gets hurt, we have an opportunity for Jaqua to step up. Mapp could get some PT if one of the midfielders goes down. Likewise, if we do go in a 3-5-2 and if Armas or Marsch goes down, then Pause could step in. Pause could also step in if one of the central defenders goes down.
Re: Fire Formation / Lineup (Post draft) It just doesn't look right without Nowak. That being said, we have a pretty solid team. If the rookies perform well then it is easily a playoff season. Only time will tell.
Re: Re: Fire Formation / Lineup (Post draft) I think that we have a solid roster and it's all going to depend upon injuries. If we don't have major injuries -- or if we can limit it to 1 major injury at a time, then we don't need to the rookies to perform. The rookies are only there for depth. In my mind, there are only a couple question marks 1) Can Gray step up and be the creative midfielder? I think the fact that he played STRIKER in Portugal and scored a goal indicates that he can play an attacking position. 2) Can Razov and Faria mesh at forward? This is probably a bigger question. If not, then we're going to need a rookie to step up like Jaqua to be more of a target/holding forward and let Razov or Faria run off him.
Re: Fire Formation / Lineup (Post draft) I look at that and say... Kelly Gray, much depends on you. Here's a little prayer for better health this year.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a 442, biggest problem is someone to creat in the center of midfield. I could see a strong, defense first side looking something like... ..........Razov Faria Beasley Gray Armas Marsh Whitfield Bocanegra Curtain Brown ............Thornton And, you never know if some of the youngsters will step up. Daniv could maybe help out some. I think things will be OK, as long as the injury rash doesn't break out again.
You're all wrong. Kelly Gray is a CENTER DEFENDER. so he will partner with Boca in the mid. CJ Brown may moved to the right wingback before a better right wing back being found. So Whitefield may play in the ring midfield with Daniv. Jaque will play at the forward. You may trade Faria back for A. Williams.
Kelly Gray excels in pretty much every position. Here's an article from a while back stating just that. http://espn.go.com/soccer/s/2002/1212/1476003.html
Kelly Gray is a wild card in this situation, one way or the other. Bradley preferred him as a defender, as does the U23 team, so who knows? As a dedicated a-mid, he might be able to do the job, but I'm not sure that he can yet. As a right-sided mid, I'm not sure if he's enough of a two-way player to handle the defensive responsibilities. Of course, if we go 4-4-2, those responsibilities will be mitigated somewhat. With a 4-4-2, and taking Sarachan's comments from the combine into account, I could see us having not just Beasley, but both of our outside mids both play a little more centrally, with the outside backs (Perez or Bocanegra on the left, Brown or Whitfield on the right) a bit more freedom to move up. Which they can do confidently, because you KNOW Jesse Marsch will be covering back for them. Right mid may be entirely up for grabs between Daniv, Gray, Whitfield, Mapp, and one or more of the new guys. And now that we're probably looking at four forwards over six feet tall on the opening day roster, I would imagine we might play a bit more of a crossing game, although with the option of pushing through the middle open as well. Later, COZ
if we need a single central mid... i'd go with beasley however, i don't really see that happening... i think we'll probably do more of a "box" midfield... beasley and a right side guy for the top part... probably marsch and armas for the back part
Beasley and Mapp can play on the right side of midfield. Perhaps one of them will play there in order to get them both on the field. You all really expect Gray to go from sometime centerback and dmid to attacking midfielder? 3-5-2 --Brown--Curtin--Bocanegra- ------Gray------Armas -Beasley--Capano---Mapp -----Faria------Jaqua Is Capano ready? Didn't he play almost the whole year in the A-league?
Next to Nowak, Gray was our best central attacker out of the midfield last season. We also saw a lot more of him last season than you out-of-towners. That doesn't mean I think Gray should be our playmaker. BTW, Capano played very little for the Rampage and only at the end of the season. The since departed Saavedra was a regular for the Rampage the second half of the season.
Rest assured, by the time we start the season there will be some new faces on the roster. Not that anyone available after cutdown day will be a superstar, but there will probably be one or two players good enough to fill in some of the holes in our lineup.
So you are obviously suggesting two central midfielders as Marsch and Armas and no specific playmaker with several players carrying playmaking responsibilities (mostly outside mids). I think I like this and we will most probably see it. We may become the Kansas City Wizards of 2000 when they were letting in less goals than German or Italian NT's in the early 1990's. Gray may really become the wild card if he finally becomes aware of his defensive responsibilities. Actually, I hate Gray as a defender or d-mid and he is OK for me if he is an a-mid. Our defense line is very obvious to me with the number and quality of our backs. It seems fairly natural to use four defenders. We have five in our pool of starters: Bocanegra, Brown, Curtin, Perez and Whitfield (alfabetical order). In my opinion Perez is the lowest on our depth chart and the second lowest might be Curtin or Whitfield, but no way it is Brown or Bocanegra. I personally think it is time Bocanegra is given the opportunity of more attacking play by becoming the left winger. In addition, knowing the facts of life and league reality, one of these fine five will almost always be unavailable to play, be it injury, card suspension or bad sushi. Taking all this into consideration, here are a couple of back line starter formations, in order of my preference (just playing a coach here): ................Thornton Whitfield..Brown..Curtin..Bocanegra or Whitfield Brown Bocanegra Perez or Brown....Curtin....Bocanegra..Perez (Brown or Bocanegra missing would not really equal a disaster, and you can probably write down the consecutive lineups yourselves). Now on to the midfield. I like what COZ said, therefore: XXXXXX Marsch Armas Beasley XXXXXX = best player on any given day out of the pool of Gray, Daniv, Mapp and whoever else. The attack is quite self explanatory but I think that at the end of the season it will rather be: ...........Selolwane....Razov And, at the end here is a little thought and I hope you all will like it: ................Thornton Whitfield..Brown..Curtin..Bocanegra ..XXXXXX**..Armas..Beasley ......Faria..Selolwane*.Razov * or Jaqua if you so please; **you can add Marsch to the pool here. I need some feedback, guys!
While I like the idea of 3 forwards, and I know the D can handle a lot of the things that gets thrown at it, with Armas being a D-mid, don't you think that limits any access through the middle of the field and takes everything wide? At NCC I don't know if that's such a good idea.
It's not a widely known fact, but with Faria & Razov we have 2 of the top 8 MLS goal scorers from last season.
Does anyone know how Dipsy is doing yet? I have this horrible feeling that he may get the brunt of the curse this year, and have little to no play time. I mean, the guy goes from being horribly sick to having an injury, to getting reinjured playing in a charity match. It doesn't give you warm fuzzy feelings about his future in red.
To those of you saying that Gray is a center defender or d-mid player... Prior to this past year with the Fire, he was nearly always an attacking player at Portland and with the youth teams. I was surprised to see Bradley use him so much as a defender, but after Armas and Whitfield went down, that's where our need was. Given that he was playing fairly well there, has the size, etc., and that we have a TON of attacking options on the U23 team, suddenly he becomes an option in the defense on that team too. However, as soon as they get some injuries and several key guys aren't called into the team, where does Mooch use him over in Portugal -- striker. My guess is that he'd do well as an a-mid for the Fire and we have SO many other options for defense. So that's why I put him in the lineup as I did. One other note -- I've heard a couple Fire fans comment on the few times that he played in that position last year and how he didn't seem to go forward that well. Some commented that perhaps he didn't go forward well because he didn't have a solid defensive midfield behind him. If he plays a central midfielder with Armas and Marsch behind him, he'd have no concerns going forward ALL the time. Even if we played a 4-4-2 with only Armas behind him, he'd still have better cover than he got last year.
That line-up will play a lot of 1-0 games. Hope we have the 1. But then again, I can't conjure up any line-ups for the Fire that will score a lot of goals. So probably best to think of the team as you envision it, a team built around containing the opposition and scoring on counters.
Another possibility that someone else alluded to but didn't spell out is the box midfield -- like this... ............... Thornton Whitfield Brown Curtin Bocanegra ............ Armas Marsch ...........Gray ....... Beasley .. Faria ...........................Razov Your strikers need to help impose the width in this type of situation and you definitely need to get some flank attack out of your outside backs -- which Whitfield and Boca are both capable of doing. Someone else mentioned doing a 4-4-2 with Armas and Marsch in the middle, Beasley on the left and Mapp, Gray or whoever else on the right and just expecting all of our attack to come off the flank. I don't think that would work well given the width (or lack thereof) of our field. Given the confines at Naperville, perhaps playing with a box midfield would actually work out best.
Perhaps I wasn't clear, because I was actually saying mostly the same thing. Not a box, exactly, but sort of a trapezoid, with the attacking mids just a bit more wide than the defensive mids. The flank runs, when applicable, would be a bit more likely to come from the outside defenders. The crossing game comes up simply because we've got a lot of size up front. We could play longball over the top as well with that particular asset, not that I'm advocating it. And, from some things I've heard, your lineup is awfully close to one that's being tossed around. Later, COZ