Fire Caleb Porter

Discussion in 'Columbus Crew' started by hangthadj, Dec 2, 2018.

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  1. Smithsoccer1721

    Smithsoccer1721 Member+

    Feb 16, 2007
    Middle of the Table
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Truthfully, there basically is not any MLS coach that has proven experience that is available really anytime. Occasionally you get an Oscar Pareja coming back into the league or Bob Bradley but otherwise everyone else is basically an assistant coach who makes the leap and figures it out. Occasionally we have a foreign coach who performs well but that's not the norm.
     
  2. zman31

    zman31 Member+

    May 5, 1999
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we wait until we have a guaranteed slam-dunk can't miss replacement available, we might as well make Porter coach for life.
     
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  3. chr1st

    chr1st Member+

    Jan 19, 2011
    Dayton
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Caleb Porter may be the greatest coach in Crew history.


    ...I hope we fire him tomorrow.
     
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  4. AC30

    AC30 Member

    Apr 29, 2007
    Columbus OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Has he been fired yet?
     
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  5. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Let's do a little thought experiment/exercise....

    Imagine, say Roma, Benfica, Chelsea, Liverpool, or Milan won their league one year (granted that's a stretch with Roma, but whatever). Now say they followed up the title winning season more than 30 points off the top of the table. Let's say they finished outside of European qualifying places, even the UEFA Conference League. For shits and giggles let's say this imaginary squad did wine up winning the Charity Shield or Italian Super Cup. Or if we wanted to actually be more accurate lets say the team won a recently devised one off cup match between English and Scottish or Italian and French, or Portuguese and Moroccan league champions, that had actually only been played 2 or 3 times before and has zero history, and was seen as even some fans of the club and fans across Europe as a silly money grab.

    Would that managers job be safe? Should it be?
     
  6. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn’t Ranieri win the league with Leicester and then get fired the very next year???
     
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  7. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    In fact he did, Kyle!!!
     
  8. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As I've noted before, there's the baseball example of Tommy Lasorda--some of his chapionship and pennant seasons were bracketed by 4-6th place finishes. Heck, even Sir Alex had a couple of off seasons. But European teams tend to be a bit quicker to make changes. Mind you, that's partly due to the spectre of relegation, which we do not have.
     
  9. chr1st

    chr1st Member+

    Jan 19, 2011
    Dayton
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're not as cultured here in MLS. Duh.
     
  10. YITBOS

    YITBOS Member+

    Jul 2, 2001
    1.3 hours from CCS
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank God and all that is Holy. My poor little heart would pop dealing with this.

    Honest question -- if LCFC finished 8th that season, would he have been kept around for another year or two? One other honest question -- if Alexi Lalas was on fire, would you piss on him to put it out?
     
  11. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    There are many reason's and ways to lament how sports has become too much of a "business" in the past few decades. I'm not immune to these moans. But one positive aspect of this is that you don't have clubs, franchises, whatever, holding onto managers, coaches, etc who are far past their sell by date, or who aren't performing as well as need be, just because they are good friends with the owners or good in the community, or other nonsense. There is just too much money involved.

    This change can/should lead to positive turnover where deserving candidates get the opportunity to show what they got. This doesn't always happen, look at the recycled names and coaches that pop up every time an EPL/Serie A job comes up, but we are in a better place, I believe, than we were 20-30 years ago.

    I see what you are saying when you bring up names like Lasorda (******** the Dodgers) or even Sir Alex. But they were always the outliers. As such, and since we are in a completely different era now, I don't believe they should be held up as examples as to why to keep a manager like Porter who has been catastrophically terrible, and not for the first time, this season
     
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  12. Smithsoccer1721

    Smithsoccer1721 Member+

    Feb 16, 2007
    Middle of the Table
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A couple random thoughts.
    • I don't have the numbers but something like 7 head coaching vacancies are open right now. If your a MLS assistant like Noonan this is your year to get a job. Sure a few might opt for foreign coaches but several jobs will be filled with coaches already in the MLS system. The question because a bit of a supply and demand for trying to "land" one of the handful of ready assistants. I don't normally like the idea of operating out of fear but its part of the equation. I personally would roll the dice because this squad is way too talented to be missing the playoffs.
    • The players have not given up on Porter which is a positive. Sometimes you see the coach lose the locker room and then you are forced to make a change.
    • I would be less trigger happy on removing Porter if I saw a team that was just getting unlucky but in reality we are not (if you don't include injuries) we are rarely creating more opportunities than our opponent. We have the 2nd worst xG in the whole league. The spaghettis people even have a better xG than us. Regardless of the excuses we have barely created chances despite a bunch of attacking talent.
     
  13. SLSHOT01

    SLSHOT01 Member+

    Columbus
    United States
    Oct 26, 2017
    Edison, Ohio
    Couldn't figure out the best thread to include this...

    upload_2021-10-4_10-54-9.png

    Team offers Private Dinner with Bez but not Caleb... hmmmmmmm

    I also read into this that Bez's job is safe... and honestly he's had as rough a year as Caleb has (if not worse...)
     
  14. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's the spirit!
     
  15. crewfan_in_columbus

    Feb 25, 2001
    Columbus is home
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SAF is indeed "the rule" and not the exception to it. His first year at United was a partial season that saw him get hired in November and finish 11th. His next three years were a mixed bag. 2nd, 11th, 13th (with an FA Cup Trophy). Since then (1989/90 season), his worst league finish was 7th, with 13 league titles, 8 runners up, 4 third place finishes, and a single 4th place finish. Overall, in 34 full seasons, he would have qualified for Champions League in all but 8 seasons. The man won 19 tournament trophies (including 11 Community Shields so maybe that number isn't AS impressive).

    And people tend to forget SAF's pre United coaching career wasn't exactly terrible either. The man has coached in a world cup and his Scottish League records are also pretty impressive.

    If you're comparing today's MLS to that of the 1970's/early 1980's SPL, that's also quite a bit disingenuous.

    Bottom line is that SAF won where ever he went. Ok. So does it seem Caleb. At least once. And that's the main difference. Nothing in Caleb's CV indicates that he'll be able to recreate what he's already done here.

    In 7 years at Akron, CP made the College Cup twice while qualifying for the tournament every year.

    In 5 years at Portland, his conference finishes were 1, 6, 3, 7, 1 with their MLS Cup happening when they finished 3rd.

    Now with us, his conference finishes are 10, 3, 10. It would certainly seem that the 3 is the outlier for us.

    We're in 10th place in the conference. 19th in the league. We are closer to FC Cincinnati on points than we are New England. And we're 10% higher than the average MLS salary. It's just simply unacceptable. You can lament injuries all you want, and to an extent, that's fair criticism. But it's even more fair to say that Caleb hasn't gotten the best out of the players he's had available. Except for maybe Hurtado. I think we've seen the best that guy has.
     
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  16. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Speaking of disingenuous comparisons...
     
  17. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I was wondering when the Akron Apologist Brigade would show up...
     
  18. crewfan_in_columbus

    Feb 25, 2001
    Columbus is home
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You’ll need to do your usual schtick of talking out of both sides of your mouth here since I doubt you’ll actually respond to my question of “what do you mean?”

    After all, you are the great arbiter of everything logic here.
     
  19. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    This is how you get discussion!

    But I'll actually answer you anyway, because you're so cuddly: using the extremely unique environment of the NCAA to compare - POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY - to any professional environment imaginable is foolhardy.

    Sasho Cirovski is immensely successful over a huge amount of time at an ACC/BigTen school, but to have some sort of expectation of him at the professional level in either direction is silly, especially since he's firmly ensconced at Maryland and has been for approximately ever.

    You could have said the same of Sigi - there was no REAL reason to expect anything in particular of him despite his long and highly successful tenure at UCLA when they were cream of the crop.

    Then there's someone like Bob Bradley, who coached at OU (when they still had a program), and then Princeton for a while. He got the U-23 job just before jumping to Chicago as an expansion team.

    Jerry Yeagley never tried his hand at the MLS game. Would he have been good or bad based on his Indiana record?

    I'm sure you could pick any NCAA-to-MLS coach and find almost no good correlation between success at both levels.

    Number of College Cup appearances against number of times qualified (which is taking a unique environment and supercharging it) over some arbitrary number of years isn't an indicator of ANYTHING in particular.

    Thus, it's disingenuous.

    P.S. Both '3' and '10' in a set size of 3 are outliers.
     
  20. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Everything means nothing, and nothing means everything.

    Still, today would be a great day to Fire Caleb Porter.
     
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  21. YITBOS

    YITBOS Member+

    Jul 2, 2001
    1.3 hours from CCS
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. associa_tionfootball

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Oct 10, 2019
    Would be pretty interesting if Ezra Hendrickson wins all 4 games while he's out
     
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  23. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Member+

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    Isn't Porter back as soon as he produces 2 negative tests 24 hours apart?
     
  24. hardhead

    hardhead Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 2008
    NEO
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I thought in MLS, once you test positive you are out for 10 days plus a negative test. That would mean he's out for 4 of our last 5 matches...where we must win 4. Huge test for Hendrickson.
     
  25. hardhead

    hardhead Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 2008
    NEO
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    The Health & Safety rules don't specify for COVID-positive results. They are only stated for close contacts and risky behavior, which vaccinated people are exempted from.

    Since he's vaccinated, he's definitely positive. CDC Guidelines state once you have a positive test you should isolate for 10 days. After 10 days, a negative result and improving symptoms, you can resume contact. So I'm going to assume Diaz and Porter (both presumably COVID positive and vaccinated) are on a 10-day regimen. I think Vito was one of those cases recently as well.
     
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