News: Fire Berhalter

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bigredmachine, Oct 15, 2019.

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  1. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    One pass. That is all it takes. Got another example. He has like 30 caps, so assume it should be pretty easy.
     
  2. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    if actually looked good, which I sure didn't notice, it was only relative to that donkey Aaron Long. Zimmermann's best chance to be viewed positively is to get injured. His passes look like what they call a "can of corn" in baseball.

    The video I posted of Brooks was from this season. I could find many more because people make videos of high level players. The only reason people make videos of Zimmerman is point out how poor he is. He is a modern day Alexi Lalas, which isn't a compliment.
     
  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    That isn't how I remember it. I'd be embarrassed by what you wrote the other day, but doubt I would lie about it given that it is actually documented.

     
  4. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    We will see. I am impressed by his ability to add this to his toolbox and I expect him to start and perform well in at least two of the opening round games.
     
  5. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    I have no personal stake in this, but apparently you are highly emotional about it.

    I see what I see and I call it like that. My record with calling talent here speaks for itself because I have no personal stake in it. If a player is growing, I have no problem acknowledging it. Zim has grown. He’s about to have a great tournament.

    Pulisic makes runs for him, and players like him don’t make runs for guys who can’t pass.
     
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  6. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Zimmerman has been on the run of his life since last fall and still has made errors that the opponent has capitalized on or was bailed out by the referee. I expect him to revert to the mean and foe his luck to change. This is of course on top of his dreadful on the ball play that he didn't just clean up in the last couple of months.
     
  7. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I have no problem saying he has been playing beyond his talent. I'd just be surprised if he is able to maintain it.

    That last paragraph is just dumb. Pulisic is a professional who is going to do his job.
     
  8. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought this was a thread about firing Berhalter???? Aren't there lots of threads about the merits of which Centerbacks should be called in? Also....isn't the first, second, and third job of a defender to defend?
     
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  9. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well, i think the wc qualifiers were pretty competitive...

    youre right theres no simple measure of progress, though. we qualified for the world cup- thats obviously huge progress...if you assume the starting point is non-qualifier and nothing else (when missing out was the outlier). winning the gold cup (and nl, for that matter- different format but same comp) should really be a baseline requirement- finalist being the floor). in the world cup itself? whats the bar when theres a constant variable in the group draw?

    its not a simple situation at all, and most importantly we dont if earnie (and whoever factors into his decision-making) is a proponent of multiple-cycles. we arent unique in that, but we are certainly in a small minority. also, is an american manager still a high priority? cause thats a really short list- imo matarazzo with a second (and a half?) term for bradley and wagner well behind him as mangers with experience beyond mls. if there isnt a "slam dunk" improvement that goes a long way towards retaining berhalter (and why i dont think mls managers are really going to factor in).

    so i agree we would have to really shit the bed in qatar unless earnie is averse to retaining managers on principle.

    ive been pretty clear im not in favor of a second cycle for berhalter, though i do- obviously- recognize we have made the progress absolutely needed in returning to the wc from a very bad position. i appreciate hitting those "minimum" requirements (two trophies!). my problem remains utilization of the available pool- thats the context i look at improvement in.

    thats why im not tripping over myself to give credit some think gregg deserves and is long overdue. im simply not a zero sum "the result is the only thing that matters" guy. i agree we have been a a fairly upward trajectory which is good, but i still think we arent getting more than the sum of our parts. at the bottom end, yes- i think berhalter has fostered a fantastic "team spirit". thats the real takeaway of the gold cup for me. its not (not not) as simple as mls vs anything else, but ill say from the arriola line down hes done well getting the best out of our talent. i would include some- but certainly not all- very fringe euro players in that assessment.

    ill also say hes grossly overused that portion of the pool. between that and his use of our top end talent is the (my) problem. and apparently its just an irreconcilable difference between "arriola over weah was totally the right call cause it all worked out right?" when weahs been a better player for a long time now (and i just said its irreconsilable so why bother arguing that point for the 900th time?).

    the improvements gregg has made- in adjusting his original system (hybrid rb/cm), then finally getting away from two narraw attackers and now finally using actual attacking players centrally. add that to the improvement in selection: (finally getting away from the dlp (bradley, trapp, yueill line out/acosta in), actually using jedi, dropping lletget for de la torre (much less musah) and utilizing aaronson (hopefully/presumably reyna) rather than overloading on defensive/holding players (ie acosta as an 8).

    but timing matters. in this case- a job interview to keep the job or move on so lets call it time management- those improvements took way too long. again- im fine saying the line has steadily risen but there was a huge plateau at the beginning of the ocho. against the same comp as the gold cup and nl we scraped out a third place finish.

    he came in to a very hard spot- no one denies that. not only the almost complete turnover of the pool needed but the timing that was out of his control. a wasted year hiring him, covid, etc. still, sticking with the original "group" for a year handicapped up. that coincided with the original system (tm).

    we saw the different utilizing actual width in the attack makes in the nations league final, yet it was the second qualifying window before we started to use that consistently. jedi wasnt used until that second window. nor was musah or weah in any substantial way. we finally are addressing the lack of offensive/creative ability in the midfield what? two weeks ago?

    i guess thats another foundational difference to be had- how reasonable that timeline is or how much time we wasted. i think weve wasted so, so much time. and i still dont know that you can say our top end talent is being used to the best of their ability. it still feels less than the sum of its parts.

    so i can see the case for saying its gotten better, let him finish the job, etc. i just feel like its gotten better and (unlike my writing style) you need to know when to put a period and end a sentence. its not an emeritis position and its not the berhalter project. its not about where we are at the end of his (or anyones) tenure, its about whats best for the team going foward from that point.

    the teams growth/improvement isnt/shouldnt be any one mangers "job". i think gregg has built a strong foundation- but i dont think hes the guy to build us up higher.
     
  10. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    a 60 yard bomb that pulisic ran onto. singular.

    thats no more compelling than any one of brooks' passes that can be cherry-picked- any more than that one-on-two chasedown and tackle in the open field over about 50 yards brooks made a few years back proves he should be in the team now.

    bs is pretty piss poor at applying data in general, but this is especially dumb.
     
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  11. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Yeah, it's weird how people want us to believe Brooks is the solution when he can't seem to find a club in Germany who agrees.
     
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  12. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you dont want to wait until he finds a non-german club to show us all how right you are?
     
  13. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Caveat: My record picking out managers has been abysmal. Here's hoping I'm getting better at it.

    At best, I'd give Berhalter a sabbatical and rehire. I don't want a general in charge fighting the last war. It took Berhalter way too long to give up his prejudices when he was hired, then he fell into social media mode. Either make him GM for a spell or have him take over the youth teams and take over senior team after olympics in 2024.

    Unlike the bone graft I'm about to have for a tooth implant :cry: we don't want the team to ossify for 4 years.

    Who would we hire for 2 years starting with Jan camp 2023 and ending summer 2024? Hugo Perez? Tab ?
     
  14. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I meant is there's no planned competitive tournament featuring non-CONCACAF teams between Qatar and June 2026, so if a new manager was brought in the only way to assess progress would be games against Mexico and Canada.

    The UEFA Nations League probably means that European teams won't field their best XI in friendlies.
     
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  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    To add to the discussion about how Walker Zimmerman is an elite distributor based on one play, I figured I'd add this description by a former player. His observation was similar to mine that WZ was under zero pressure and all the time in the world to make the pass

    https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=5226472640801468&_rdr
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not that you're judging his ability on one pass.
     
  17. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Not sure what this is…can’t open it in my browser.

    I’m comfortable with my own evaluation of Zimmerman. If I was one of Berhalter’s assistants I would have no problem recommending that Zim get the green light to hit some ambitious passes. I’d know he’d make my recommendation look good.

    I know that’s already happening, however, because Pulisic is trying to get open for him and its working. That means they’re doing it in practice and Pulisic trusts that he’ll get opportunities from Zim. That’s pretty big.
     
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  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Always like to see changes where we clearly need some improvement. At one point, our GK coach was designing set pieces. I think the designs were actually pretty good, but if this guy can help improve delivery...

     
  19. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    It's as much about set pieces on the defensive side of the ball as attack. In qualifying we were -1 GD on set pieces. Unacceptable in a World Cup. Our delivery was bad, but so was our defensive organization on set pieces.

    I don't honestly know anything about this particular coach except for his resume that I Googled, which looks very good in this regard, but I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of bringing in a guy for this specific purpose, to improve our set pieces on both ends of the pitch.

    IMO this team has three real issues:

    1) Almost no goal production (goals or assists) from the CF position.
    2) Inconsistent goalkeeping due to our keepers mostly sitting on the bench.
    3) Set pieces, both attacking and defending, particularly the set piece takers themselves (except for Acosta, to a degree, and he's rightfully a sub).
     
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  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Steffen and Horvarth have found homes where they may be the starting gk and I guess Turner will get playing time in the League Cup (whatever it's called these days).
     
  21. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    The League Cup isn't nearly enough time to be sharp. Steffen had that and the FA Cup IIRC last year, and look how bad he was. IMO Turner was our best keeper in qualifying by far, but in the January window when he was out of season he was as bad as Steffen has been. This is why I'm considering Steffen our most likely starter on merit in Qatar, even though I think Turner is "better."

    (P.S. I almost intentionally disregard the commercial name of whatever they call the League Cup or FA Cup at any given time, just like I kind of disregard the current commercial name of most stadiums.)
     
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  22. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    I am a big advocate of running American football style plays on set pieces. Your have a player make reads and signal to the set piece taker or you let the set piece taker make the reads and signal the players. You use the plays to ensure you put your strengths against their weaknesses.

    If you work on 10 of these for a tournament and convert 3 of them into chances, is it worth it? Yes.
     
  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah but as soon as the taker grabs the ball its handball.

    I think teams do have set plays they work on a lot. Some are prepped by the coach but a lot are left to the players.

     
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  24. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    American football’s science of player movement in these types of situations could be revolutionary for free kicks. I’m not sure why it hasn’t become normalized, because you can dictate matchups and isolate the players you want in the places you want them against the players you want them against. Walker Zimmerman marked by Messi near post, etc.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Assuming zonal marking?
     

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