News: Fire Berhalter

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bigredmachine, Oct 15, 2019.

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  1. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Not sure what you’re saying here…because the idea that a single one of those players would have started in Qatar is bananas. The only guy may have started is Richards, and he was hurt.

    These kids of posts are straight bananas.
     
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  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    LOL @ thinking looking good in a second division makes you ready to be awesome in a World Cup...
     
  3. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Our best guys didn’t even look undeniably awesome at the World Cup. And now we have two locked in NT starters and another regular in a relegation battle instead of the Champions League. Maybe we’re still looking at the next coach being a guy to grind out acceptable results given the players he’s working with.
     
  4. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    why not? When you look at players playing in second divisions in Europe a number of them are a lot better than the MLS players that were dragged to the World Cup.
    Where a player plays is not a 100% guide to the quality that player can produce in a World Cup. But it is a fair indicator.
    In general players playing in the second tier in England, Germany, Spain and France have a good chance of being "better" than MLS players. But that is not 100% either.
    The second level of play in much of the world is quite good and players should be looked at VERY closely if they play even have way decent in 2nd tier leagues in Europe.
    The MLS is an OK league but even its best is not up to the level of many European 2nd divisions.
    Shoot the Seattle Sounders just got beaten by a African club team and no one I've ever heard has said that African club soccer is better than the second divisions in much of Europe.
    Admittedly regularly playing in the MLS is better for a player than sitting the bench in top leagues BUT regular playing in many 2nd divisions is better for a player than any amount of play in the MLS.
     
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  5. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Hopefully we have some newcomers push their way into the lineups at decent clubs.

    We are a country like Denmark or Switzerland. We don’t need everyone starting at CL clubs to field a competitive squad, but we do need guys who are playing 90 minutes at a good level and there needs to be competition within the national team squad for real minutes.

    Also, combinations of players matter. The guys who want to be a part of the team in big tournaments need to be on the field playing together when it doesn’t matter as much. Too many guys missed time before the last World Cup.
     
  6. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    There is a ton of evidence to show the opposite…that guys who go to MLS clubs from 2nd division European clubs do not stand out compared to mediocre MLS players.
     
  7. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    And it is true the other way around as well. That is guys that go from MLS to 2nd division European clubs do not stand out compared to average Euro guys.
    Just watching the MLS and the poor play there it is clear, to me, that the play is quite low when compared with 2nd divisions in Europe. However others might see it different as personal prejudice is a large factor in perceptions like this. I like to think I am a pretty neutral observer of soccer but I know that I must have biases I am not even aware of. You don't get to be my age without developing a few, at least.

    We will just have to agree that we have very different views of the level of play in the MLS. ;)
     
  8. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What second divisions are you watching? Just curious.
     
  9. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    England, Germany, Italy (Not one of the best), France and some Japan (Again not one of the best).

    I do not really follow any 2nd divisions but I do watch some matches from 2nd divisions every week.
    Oh, I also watch some lower level matches here in the USA and I mostly include the Canadian Premier league as a 2nd division league.
     
  10. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough. IMO England and Germany have the best second divisions in the world.

    I agree with you about Italy. It's no wonder that newly promoted sides typically struggle in Serie A.

    Haven't watched France Ligue 2, not sure where to watch it frankly.

    At the end of the day good and talented players will stand out. Whether that is in MLS, Bundesliga 2, EFL , etc.
     
  11. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    How many teams starting second division players survived their group in Qatar?

    You can't rely on guys who are not under the constant stress of top division play.

    Heck, you rather play a guy in the top division in Qatar than one in the Championship. That's why Boufal started for Morocco and Zaroury didn't.

    I thought that was something well-known by soccer fans.
     
  12. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    MLS is essentially a second division league. It also doesn't have a good track record of developing domestic players. Not letting second division players compete for the USMNT just meant it was just one more thing MLS players didn't have to compete for.
     
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  13. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed.

    Our players are solid, but not the revolutionary players some would hope them to be. When I was watching the World Cup, I saw many players from other countries who were more technical, more clinical, and sometimes more athletic.

    We have a good team, but I just feel we need to pump the brakes on unrealistic fan expectations.
     
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  14. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I think the talk of 2nd division leagues is kind of pointless. The game is now global, and the players go to the teams who will pay them the most. MLS is what it is and it's tiring listening to guys talk about how it's a terrible league, poor play, whatever. What exactly are you expecting? Why would you expect the league to be anywhere near the leagues whose revenues are 2,3 or more times MLS's? The EPL and Bundesliga have global audiences. No idea why you'd expect MLS to come close to competing with those leagues. The EPL's revenue is 6.1B, Bundesliga 3 B, Seria A 2.3 B and MLS is 1.4 billion. No duh the quality is less, why would you expect it to be equal?
     
  15. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The LA Galaxy have sourced a few players from Ligue 2 that have been pretty big flops. I'm thinking only England and (maybe) Germany are have credible 2nd divisions right now.
     
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  16. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My impression is that the Spanish 2nd division is pretty strong.

    Lower divisions in most of Europe, outside of these few exceptions, are nothing to get excited about.
     
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  17. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So when do we start a "Fire Marsch" thread?
     
  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    You realize the notion that MLS is close to top leagues come from MLS, its so-called journalist, and nutso fans who keep exaggerating how good the league is. I'm not sure I know anyone who is constantly trying t compare leagues that isn't an MLS fan. My guess is if they'd shut up, would would hear a lot less criticism.

    So why did this ********ing coach continuously take these inept players from a 2nd rate league instead of player succeeding in top leagues?
     
  19. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    One of the most prolific goal scorers ever in MLS was a Leeague one player. Plenty of MLS players have failed in Scotland, the Chamionship, the Netherlands, Belgium, and even Scandinavia. Of course, this tells us nothing in people never ending quest to figure out how MLS stacks up.
     
  20. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USMNT management style and game model.....encourages roboticization and lack of ability to IMPROVISE

    players cant think tactics on the field OR MAKE ANY DECISIONS at all basically out there


    they follow orders (at least under the recent regimes)

    but thats not how good soccer is actually played

    players are not ballet performers. their moves cant be choreographed...which is berhalters style...its a ridiculous charade.

    the US players unfortunately are not encouraged to do other than follow orders and play as told...so they look pedestrian...and eventually lose whatever flair they have.....

    even players like dest and pulisic etc.....well they need other players like them to play off...not jedi, acosta, and zimmerman etc.....
     
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What about yourself? Do you know yourself?
     
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  22. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    When he names his first roster for a meaningless friendly.
     
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  23. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    #3548 deejay, Feb 13, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2023
    This league crap is bogus. The real answer is and has been for a while been the Deloitte ranking and to treat it like a pyramid or some sort of logarithmic scale. If you are in the top 3 then you are competing at a level far higher than anybody else below. If you are in the top 10 then ditto but clubs at ranking 4 through 10 are probably not much more spread than 1 and 3. After that top 30 or so. From that point on it is a very tough arguing anything no matter the ranking. That is most of the time what you lot are doing arguing about, guys in clubs far from the top 30.

    MNTs that really matter have guys in the top 3 clubs and starters all over the field in the top 10. Rarely do they venture below the 30. We have one guy in a top 10 club and a handful in top 30 clubs. we never argue about those guys, instead we argue incessantly about meh players as if there is some huge difference.
     
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  24. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    No, the MLS fan claims there isnt a big difference, but then we find out that there is a huge difference between those MLS guys who were were unfairly selected over and over and that Euro guy who had to wait forever.
     
  25. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How many guys did Argentina have in top 3 clubs? Top 10?
     

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