News: Fire Berhalter

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bigredmachine, Oct 15, 2019.

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  1. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Just curious, how many teams make it to any Finals without any sort of luck and 1 or 2 players putting the team on their back? That seems to pretty much be the formula for every team that has ever won some kind of championship. Jordan, Lebron, Brady, etc (Zidane pretty much single handedly beat Brazil in the WC finals back in 98!)
     
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  2. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Actually, part of the criticism is that Berhalter put together a collection of players that we are told shouldn't be expected to perform well. Here's the deal: The USMNT coach is responsible for the performance of the USMNT and if he assembles a squad that hobbles and wins but unconvincingly, then that's not a great performance from the coach. Reaching the final really is the minimum acceptable performance for any USMNT coach, and he has cleared that with his selected players
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You realize the US conceding a goal wouldn't be a loss, right?
     
  4. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    You do realize that the next stoppage after the potential PK was the goal?—did you really want them to take back the goal to give the US a PK??? (Yes, they can stop play for a review, but there really wasn’t relaxed play.)
     
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  5. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    It is if we cant score two, or at least one and get lucky in PKs, which seemingly we nearly can’t. Which is kind of the point
     
  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I was explaining what I heard/read about why Berhalter got in the 4th ref's face after the goal. He was pissed at the lack of a call and basically taunted the ref that we scored.
     
  7. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    for those complaining about his selections, please be specific. I get Lewis; he’s not even a standout in MLS. Pines too; yes, he’s young. Selecting a young center back to see if he can hack it at the next level is a good idea. Was Pines the best choice?

    The squad in this Gold Cup was always going to be a b or c team, because the a team is in Europe,
    Whenever a poster lists everything that goes our way as luck while ignoring everything that doesn’t go our way, or vice versa, they’re trying to win an argument, not discuss an issue.
     
  8. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    This thread should just be locked up.
    The chances of Berhalter getting fired any time soon are slim.
     
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  9. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For me, it was Lewis, Yueill, and having such a thin pool of wingers. I get Yueill now-Berhalter was taking one last chance to see if he could make it work at this level. However, the other two items left us in a tough spot offensively. Berhalter should have recognized the issue with roster construction from the Olympics (and let’s be clear, he had a big hand in that process despite Kreis coaching the team) and corrected that for the Gold Cup.

    It is fair to give Berhalter credit for what he’s doing well while still expecting improvement in other areas. I’ll continue to want more variety and creativity on attack, as I still contend that all USMNT teams have not been as effective as the sum of the talent. Get that right, and we have something really good cooking here.
     
  10. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :whistling:
    We all know when a team wins because they've created numerous chances and more than the opposition and when a team is out played, out shot, but still wins because their one half chance goes in.

    The US-Qatar match was textbook smash and grab. The US was outshot 17-6 and the xG was hugely lopsided. Qatar missed a PK, which is a low probability event and got two absurd saves to keep Qatar from being up 3-0 by the 60' minute. After a lot of ineffectual passing, the U.S. snatched a goal on a half chance. There's no way to describe taht as anything but luck. Kind of similarly against Canada, where the U.S. scored early and created nearly nothing from the next 85 minutes while Canada repeatedly came close on decent chances. Jamaica was better, but still extremely unconvincing going forward.

    The fact of the matter is that the U.S, both at the "A team" level and this team, to create real chances going forward. There is a LOT of pretty meaningless possession but the attack is frequently quite toothless against solid opposition.


    As for the selection, USSF made a choice not to call up European players. If they lose doing that, then that's a loss and a poor reflection on the federation. yes, the timing is screwy. if England or Italy decided to send their C team to the Euros, that coach would be roasted alive by the fans. But in the US?
     
  11. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Depends on how much pressure is brought to bear, frankly. We're not discussing whether he will be fired, but whether he should be. Berhalter is a pretty bad manager. We have a solid generation of talent, and it is being hamstrung by an inept manager hired because of nepotism rather than ability. That's simply the reality of it.
     
  12. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I am reserving my judgment until the Ocho.
    If this team plays well then there is no way I can agree with you on your depiction of reality.
     
  13. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Italy and England can’t run out a B team at the Euro and still be a virtual lock to make the final. Add in the fact that the Gold Cup is every two years and there’s just no way to make U.S. fans care as much.

    Heck, even without COVID schedule concerns many U.S. fans say they’d rather see young unproven players at the Gold Cup while the A team focuses on more “important” things.
     
  14. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, agreed. Now ask yourself, how much confidence do you have they will play well based on what you have seen in the last two years

    i would be thrilled to be proven wrong and see Berhalter produce the great soccer we know this generation can produce.
     
  15. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    We have some good young players.
    The way the schedule sets up is not bad either.

    I would say my confidence level is at a 7 outta 10.
     
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  16. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The point isnt to make the final. The point is to WIN the final. But I guess US fans have internalized their inherently being second to Mexico. Kind of a trash attitude if you ask me.
     
  17. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am going to try to absorb some of that. I will be over the moon if you are right.
     
  18. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Getting El Salvador and Honduras on the road Early when they are still going through some COVID craziness helps me in my confidence.
    Good to get them out of the way early in front of what will not be full capacity stadiums.
     
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  19. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I haven't been watching GB as long as some others here, but the trend I notice is that he seems to evolve in the right directions slowly. Overall, his game plans seem better adapted to the talent he has, and to the opponent, than they used to be. He septillion makes fewer in game tactical adjustments than a lot of others would like, but he doesn’t seem as rigid about people and formations as he used to be. Beyond the first 15, player selection is still a problem, and players that could help us much more than the ones he calls up don’t get looks. That is still frustrating. Hopefully WCQ will speed and improve the winnowing process before 2022.
     
  20. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I tend to agree we should always be at the Gold Cup to win but you can’t just make others care. See the 2017 win over Jamaica. Probably the least celebrated trophy win you’ll ever see when it comes to the U.S. Many fans even seem to look back on that tournament with anger given what happened soon after in qualifying.
     
  21. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I celebrated that day by going to Bahama Breeze restaurant and devouring a Jamaican meal.
     
  22. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've said this on a few other occasions before, but I'd MUCH rather see a summer international cycle look like this. I don't like the Gold Cup being every other year, but CONCACAF's gonna CONCACAF. There's just too much money for them.

    Year 0 - World Cup
    Year 1 - Some sort of friendly invitational tournament like the SheBelieves Cup for the women. There could be multiple events like this around the world, kind of like how there are a number of Thanksgiving college basketball tournaments that have a team from each conference playing (NIT, Maui, Las Vegas, Atlantis, Disney World, etc.).
    Year 2 - Continental event - Euros, Copa America, Gold Cup
    Year 3 - World Cup qualifiers
    Year 4 - Next World Cup

    The "Year 1" event should be exclusively for looking at the next generation of talent and to try out different tactics, etc.
     
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  23. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    CONCACAF likes money so they like Gold Cups every 2 years.
     
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  24. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    This
     
  25. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Some older fans may remember this but there was an invitational Cup called the U.S. Cup for the Men.

    I used to love watching the games on ABC.

    Would be fun if they brought it back in some form.
     
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